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4 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 3:37AM #41
Jm8
Posts: 784

1. This is Hebrews 9.27-28, not Jesus.
2. Clearly every man (Gr. anthropos) only once leaves the material body. It doesn't say anything about further existence.


Hope this helps. Hare Krsna
Your servant, bh. Jan

www.vrindavan-dham.com
www.veda.harekrsna.cz

dvaitaM bandhAya mokSAt prAk prApte bodhe manISayA
bhaktyarthaM kalpitam dvaitaM advaitAd api sundaram

"Duality is bondage before moksa and wisdom after realization. The duality accepted for the purpose of bhakti is sweeter than even non-duality." (from mangalacarana to Advaitasiddhi sara sangraha by Madhusudana Sarasvati, former advaitin)

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4 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 6:33PM #42
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,908

May 19, 2011 -- 1:27PM, Craig_w_dressler wrote:


The book you refer to is certainly not Christian because it totally ignores Jesus' own words when he says: "It is appointed once for person to die and after that the judgment."  We only live once and then die.  Afterwards, our spirit will either be in heaven or hell.  The choice is ours to make.



Here's a excerpt from the book relating to that verse: " Since men only die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, too, offers himself only once to take the faults of many on himself, and when he appears a second time, it will not be to deal with sin but to reward with salvation those who are waiting for him" ( Jerusalem Bible ).   

The Catholic catechism cites this verse in it's refutation of reincarnation. "When 'the single course of our earthly life' is complete, we shall not return to other earthly lives: ' It is appointed for men to die once.' There is no 'reincarnation' after death." - The first thing to note in considering the "once to die" passage is it's context. The Author of Hebrews is not trying to deny reincarnation. Rather, he is explaining that repetitive blood sacrifices of animals were a part of the old covenant established by Moses but are not needed in the new covenant established by Jesus. Under the old covenant the priest of Isreal were required to make many sacrifices, using the blood of animals. But under the new covenant, Jesus shed his own blood, a sacrifice that was needed only once.  What does the author mean by saying " since men only die once"? The easiest explanation is that he is referring to the fact that our mortal bodies die only once. No one has tried to argue otherwise except Christians who believe in a bodily resurrection. And "after that comes the judgment" can refer to life reviews such as those reported in near-death experiences. But a post-life judgment does not preclude the possibility of the soul's returnng to earth in another mortal body. For the passage does not say, "It is appointed unto man once to live."

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4 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 6:45PM #43
Paravani
Posts: 798

Hello, All!


I remember past lives.


In order of most, clearest memories to vaguest --


I  remember one past life as an illiterate shepherd girl who was abducted  and sold into slavery in Italy during the sixth century.


I remember one past life as a man, a law student in America during the first decades after the Revolution.


I remember being at Versailles during the eighteenth century.  (I believe that I was one of Louis XIV's many daughters.)


I  believe I also spent a lifetime as a disciple of a Hindu guru.  I  believe this based on the spontaneous memory of many Sanskrit words that  have to do with the search for enlightment.


I believe that  more recently, I spent a brief lifetime in Mao's Communist China.  I  suspect that I died in the mines where I had been sent to work as  "punishment", possibly while participating in an escape attempt.


*******************************************


My  first memories of past lives came to me in two extremely detailed and  vivid dreams which were like no others.  They were first, coherent;  second, in full color, complete with smells (the smell of sewage and  woodsmoke predominated in the streets of post-Revolutionary  Philadelphia); and third, they were historically very detailed and  surprisingly accurate.  Waking from them was like being sucked back into  the present time -- I could feel myself slipping forward through the  ages before I awoke.


I had never studied the period in time of  the dreams; and in the case of my lifetime as a shepherd girl, there is  little historical material to study.  However, I remembered archaic  vocabulary from my time in Philadelphia ("gaiters", the ribbons that  hold up men's stockings), and I was able to approximately place the time  of my life as a shepherd girl by the word "Visigoth", which came to me  as a description of the raiders who stole me (and all the other women  and children) from my village.


Besides those two dreams, my  memories of Versailles were the most striking to me personally because I  was wide awake at the time and in the company of my skeptical  ex-husband. 


We were visiting Versailles for the first time,  walking through the gardens, where my first impression was, "Oh, they've  let the gardens go so badly!"   Even though the French government does  keep the grounds somewhat trimmed and nicely planted, I felt as if they  had been so much prettier "before".


I had barely started to  ask myself what I meant by "before" when I began to see visions of huge  white wings flying up in front of my face.  The wings were bigger than  ducks', bigger than geese's...  very persistent and very distracting,  because I couldn't imagine what kind of bird had wings that large.  Was I  seeing angels???


No...  Swans!  The park used to be home to flocks of swans!


I  told my ex-husband what I was seeing, and narrated what I remembered as  I remembered it.  I told him that up ahead on the pathway we would come  to the pond where the swans had nested...  and...


...  I had a  memory, a funny memory, of a young man dressed in beautiful white  brocade embroidered with gold thread, sitting on the edge of a fountain  and leaning over.  He had a glass in his hand, and he was dipping it  into the fountain to refill it with wine, red wine...  but he'd already  drunk too much, so he fell in!  The fountain was shallow, so he stood up  laughing...  and his beautiful suit was all red.


"There's a fountain up ahead that the King used to fill with wine for his grand garden parties," I told my ex-husband.  


When  we turned the corner in the path, we saw a fountain in the distance...   and as we neared it, we could see the statue in the middle, with a  couple of cherubs gamboling around him.  It was Bacchus, the God of  Wine, and he was pouring water out of an ewer...


There is  absolutely NO WAY I could have known that in advance.  We hadn't stopped  off at the gift shop first, we had no maps, and I had never paid any  attention to Versailles before that day.


When we did stop at  the gift shop later, I bought a pack of postcards because there was a  portrait of a young princess among them who seemed so familiar, so dear  to me at first sight, I had to have her picture.


Love,


-- Claudia

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4 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 8:30PM #44
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,908

May 20, 2011 -- 6:45PM, Paravani wrote:


Hello, All!


I remember past lives.


In order of most, clearest memories to vaguest --


I remember one past life as an illiterate shepherd girl who was abducted and sold into slavery in Italy during the sixth century.


I remember one past life as a man, a law student in America during the first decades after the Revolution.


I remember being at Versailles during the eighteenth century.  (I believe that I was one of Louis XIV's many daughters.)


I believe I also spent a lifetime as a disciple of a Hindu guru.  I believe this based on the spontaneous memory of many Sanskrit words that have to do with the search for enlightment.


I believe that more recently, I spent a brief lifetime in Mao's Communist China.  I suspect that I died in the mines where I had been sent to work as "punishment", possibly while participating in an escape attempt.


*******************************************


My first memories of past lives came to me in two extremely detailed and vivid dreams which were like no others.  They were first, coherent; second, in full color, complete with smells (the smell of sewage and woodsmoke predominated in the streets of post-Revolutionary Philadelphia); and third, they were historically very detailed and surprisingly accurate.  Waking from them was like being sucked back into the present time -- I could feel myself slipping forward through the ages before I awoke.


I had never studied the period in time of the dreams; and in the case of my lifetime as a shepherd girl, there is little historical material to study.  However, I remembered archaic vocabulary from my time in Philadelphia ("gaiters", the ribbons that hold up men's stockings), and I was able to approximately place the time of my life as a shepherd girl by the word "Visigoth", which came to me as a description of the raiders who stole me (and all the other women and children) from my village.


Besides those two dreams, my memories of Versailles were the most striking to me personally because I was wide awake at the time and in the company of my skeptical ex-husband. 


We were visiting Versailles for the first time, walking through the gardens, where my first impression was, "Oh, they've let the gardens go so badly!"   Even though the French government does keep the grounds somewhat trimmed and nicely planted, I felt as if they had been so much prettier "before".


I had barely started to ask myself what I meant by "before" when I began to see visions of huge white wings flying up in front of my face.  The wings were bigger than ducks', bigger than geese's...  very persistent and very distracting, because I couldn't imagine what kind of bird had wings that large.  Was I seeing angels???


No...  Swans!  The park used to be home to flocks of swans!


I told my ex-husband what I was seeing, and narrated what I remembered as I remembered it.  I told him that up ahead on the pathway we would come to the pond where the swans had nested...  and...


...  I had a memory, a funny memory, of a young man dressed in beautiful white brocade embroidered with gold thread, sitting on the edge of a fountain and leaning over.  He had a glass in his hand, and he was dipping it into the fountain to refill it with wine, red wine...  but he'd already drunk too much, so he fell in!  The fountain was shallow, so he stood up laughing...  and his beautiful suit was all red.


"There's a fountain up ahead that the King used to fill with wine for his grand garden parties," I told my ex-husband.  


When we turned the corner in the path, we saw a fountain in the distance...  and as we neared it, we could see the statue in the middle, with a couple of cherubs gamboling around him.  It was Bacchus, the God of Wine, and he was pouring water out of an ewer...


There is absolutely NO WAY I could have known that in advance.  We hadn't stopped off at the gift shop first, we had no maps, and I had never paid any attention to Versailles before that day.


When we did stop at the gift shop later, I bought a pack of postcards because there was a portrait of a young princess among them who seemed so familiar, so dear to me at first sight, I had to have her picture.


Love,


-- Claudia



Hi Claudia, Stories like this have always fascinated me. The deja vu stories of people who remember places that they have never been too and who remember something about things or subjects ( such as knowing foreign languages ) that they have no prior education of have always piqued my interest in reincarnation.

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4 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 9:54PM #45
Paravani
Posts: 798

Hi, All!

May 20, 2011 -- 8:30PM, williejhonlo wrote:

Hi Claudia, Stories like this have always fascinated me. The deja vu stories of people who remember places that they have never been too and who remember something about things or subjects ( such as knowing foreign languages ) that they have no prior education of have always piqued my interest in reincarnation.



Hi, Will!


I know it sounds strange to many people, but it doesn't sound so strange to me in my family.  My youngest brother remembers being a Mongol, raiding villages and watching them burn.  In this life he's a pacifist who wouldn't hurt a fly...


... And my mother-in-law, a very sweet and very conservative, extremely well-bred lady who's 91 years young, remembered the Scottish countryside when she and my father-in-law visited it for the first time.  He confirmed that as they drove through the country, she began to describe what they would see over the rise of a hill, and when they got there they saw it exactly as she said they would -- cottages, land features, etc.


Now, I myself might seem a little outspoken and "flaky" on occasion, but my MIL is nothing if not completely respectable, sane, and steady.  If she says she remembers Scotland, she does.


Love,


-- Claudia

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1 year ago  ::  Aug 13, 2013 - 5:33PM #46
Piobair_Paganach
Posts: 291

"Does your faith believe in reincarnation?"


Sort of; in my tradition (Zen Buddhism), it's rarely mentioned, if at all, and certainly isn't an article of faith.
Personally, I don't believe a priori in reincarnation or an afterlife, but I feel no need to. Thus have I heard (ref. Kalama Sutta); if you believe in reincarnation, you should practice the Noble Eightfold Path, as it accrues spiritual merit leading to an auspicious rebirth. If you do not believe in reincarnation, you should practice the Noble Eightfold Path, as it demonstrably leads to the extinction of suffering in this life (which I do truly believe). I'm entirely capable of creating Heaven or Hell myself without any magical thinking or hocus-pocus. All arises from my mind. If I think with a pure mind, happiness follows me like a shadow which never leaves me. If I think with an impure mind, sorrow follows me like the wheels of a cart follow an ox. That I can believe a posteriori.

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 24, 2013 - 8:21AM #47
peterthesplitfish
Posts: 1,609

I want to add to this thread a bit of interesting material that I came across today from reading the earlier posts.


www.beyondthenet.net/dhamma/reinc.htm


Quantum Mechanics or Quantum Physics is taking a new look at reincarnation from a scientific point of view realizing that the old concept of Classical Science has runs its course and is simply outdated.


I didn't believe in reincarnation until later recently in my life and because of some consistencies I have found in certain people and who they have been, I have drawn my own conclusion that when it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then it must be a duck reincarnated so to speak.


Peter

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 24, 2013 - 10:23AM #48
Jalan
Posts: 71

There is indeed a lot of evidence that seems to point to reincarnation being real.  However, I am the opposite of you in that I went from accepting reincarnation at the young age of 17 to a different paradigm later on.  I believe that when people have memories of what seem to be past lives they are receiving those memories from spirits, who of course at one time lived on earth.  Essentially this implies that for reasons of personality, familial ties, one's life work, or "karma" (things in common that have to be worked out) all of us are strongly connected to a number of spirits.  Those connections can be so strong at times (and not always positive) that the memories and feelings of those spirits can be passed on to us.


If you haven't already, I would suggest reading the book "Remarkable Healings" by a Dr. Modi.  Basically she has been practicing for some time hypnosis in her therapy work, and shares many episodes that would support both reincarnation and the principle I expressed above.  

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 24, 2013 - 2:39PM #49
Whisper01
Posts: 2,734

Oct 24, 2013 -- 8:21AM, peterthesplitfish wrote:


Quantum Mechanics or Quantum Physics is taking a new look at reincarnation from a scientific point of view realizing that the old concept of Classical Science has runs its course and is simply outdated.





Peter


As I stated on another thread, that shall remain nameless ;-), I would like to know more about the QM and QP take on reincarnation. Interesting stuff.


Thanks!

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 25, 2013 - 2:05PM #50
peterthesplitfish
Posts: 1,609

Oct 24, 2013 -- 10:23AM, Jalan wrote:


There is indeed a lot of evidence that seems to point to reincarnation being real.  However, I am the opposite of you in that I went from accepting reincarnation at the young age of 17 to a different paradigm later on.  I believe that when people have memories of what seem to be past lives they are receiving those memories from spirits, who of course at one time lived on earth.  Essentially this implies that for reasons of personality, familial ties, one's life work, or "karma" (things in common that have to be worked out) all of us are strongly connected to a number of spirits.  Those connections can be so strong at times (and not always positive) that the memories and feelings of those spirits can be passed on to us.


If you haven't already, I would suggest reading the book "Remarkable Healings" by a Dr. Modi.  Basically she has been practicing for some time hypnosis in her therapy work, and shares many episodes that would support both reincarnation and the principle I expressed above.  




Jalan,


I have stated on another thread about my belief in discarnate spirits and many people are like magnets to them. They attract things to them like spirits because of a myriad of reasons and those spirits can 'tell' them things they want to hear. There is, however, a great difference between what one wants to hear and what one needs to hear.


I have experienced many friends of mine who have gone through a carefull process of past life regression avoided many cliche tactics and smoke and mirror parlor tricks. They don't make money off of what they do, they do it as a gift for the others who want to go through with it. Are all successful with it? No. There are reasons some people cannot do past life regressions as there are reasons some people can do past life regressions. I have not gone yet, but I am working up to it through cleansing my body first then my body and spirit so that when I do, I will get the most out of it.


Peter

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