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Switch to Forum Live View Pagans still fighting to be excepted
4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 4:10AM #1
Divinity2009
Posts: 1

In todays society that is filled with hate crimes, people living in fear of another terrosist attack and what seems like a widespread epidemic of children being murdered by their own families, one would think that the prejudices against religions like Paganism would have long been forgotten. Unfortunately this is not the case and even after centuries of persecutions and murderous attacks on those who chose to worship differently, it is still an issue. Why is my main question? What is the overwhelming problem that so many such as, Christians, have against us ? I believe that in order to finally put an end to this discrimination problem is to educate whether the people want to listen or not. I am not saying to convert them because that would be wrong but to actually pass a law making it mandatory for their to be city council meetings in every state at least once a week. Of course getting our state leaders to stand behind this would be a different story because the majority of them are prejudice. I just hope for equality for every religion one day and that we no longer must live in the broom closet.FrownInnocent

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 9:07AM #2
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Nov 4, 2010 -- 4:10AM, Divinity2009 wrote:


In todays society that is filled with hate crimes, people living in fear of another terrosist attack and what seems like a widespread epidemic of children being murdered by their own families, one would think that the prejudices against religions like Paganism would have long been forgotten. Unfortunately this is not the case and even after centuries of persecutions and murderous attacks on those who chose to worship differently, it is still an issue. Why is my main question? What is the overwhelming problem that so many such as, Christians, have against us ? I believe that in order to finally put an end to this discrimination problem is to educate whether the people want to listen or not. I am not saying to convert them because that would be wrong but to actually pass a law making it mandatory for their to be city council meetings in every state at least once a week. Of course getting our state leaders to stand behind this would be a different story because the majority of them are prejudice. I just hope for equality for every religion one day and that we no longer must live in the broom closet.FrownInnocent




 


I am going to assume that you mean accepted, rather than excepted.   And I am not in the broom closet, and I live in Oklahoma, for gods' sake! The place that just made it illegal to use sharia law in judical rulings!  The most backward of backward states! Yes, there is persecution, but it is incidents, rather than state-mandated bigotry.  And then there is our dear friend Dan Halloran (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Halloran). Things are better than they were.  I am sorry you feel you have to be in the closet, but that doesn't apply to all of us. Anymore,  I don't even think that applies to most of us.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 04, 2010 - 10:28PM #3
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,663

Nov 4, 2010 -- 4:10AM, Divinity2009 wrote:


In todays society that is filled with hate crimes, people living in fear of another terrosist attack and what seems like a widespread epidemic of children being murdered by their own families, one would think that the prejudices against religions like Paganism would have long been forgotten. Unfortunately this is not the case and even after centuries of persecutions and murderous attacks on those who chose to worship differently, it is still an issue. Why is my main question? What is the overwhelming problem that so many such as, Christians, have against us ? I believe that in order to finally put an end to this discrimination problem is to educate whether the people want to listen or not. I am not saying to convert them because that would be wrong but to actually pass a law making it mandatory for their to be city council meetings in every state at least once a week. Of course getting our state leaders to stand behind this would be a different story because the majority of them are prejudice. I just hope for equality for every religion one day and that we no longer must live in the broom closet.FrownInnocent




1990 called, they want their outrage back...Undecided


A few issues I have with your statement:


1. Paganism isn't a religion, it is a group of religions.


2. Prejudice exists, it isn't going to go away. I know many Christians who dispise Pagans, and I know many Pagans who dispise Christians.


3. Education is a perfectly reasonable means of informing non-Pagans about those religions; however, state mandated "council meetings", really? Are you aware of things like the first amendment and establishment clause, you know those aspects of the US constitution which upholds the seperation of church and state? 


Which says nothing about allocating state funds to educate people about a rather miniscle group of religions. It is simply an impractical way to go about it.

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2010 - 11:43AM #4
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Nov 4, 2010 -- 4:10AM, Divinity2009 wrote:


In todays society that is filled with hate crimes, people living in fear of another terrosist attack and what seems like a widespread epidemic of children being murdered by their own families, one would think that the prejudices against religions like Paganism would have long been forgotten. Unfortunately this is not the case and even after centuries of persecutions and murderous attacks on those who chose to worship differently, it is still an issue. Why is my main question? What is the overwhelming problem that so many such as, Christians, have against us ? I believe that in order to finally put an end to this discrimination problem is to educate whether the people want to listen or not. I am not saying to convert them because that would be wrong but to actually pass a law making it mandatory for their to be city council meetings in every state at least once a week. Of course getting our state leaders to stand behind this would be a different story because the majority of them are prejudice. I just hope for equality for every religion one day and that we no longer must live in the broom closet.FrownInnocent




 


 


I used to feel the outrage that you do. 


 


I have 2 points here. 


 


1.  I don't know what good having city counsel meetings once a week would do.  People don't go to meetings now.  I don't go to meetings now. 


 


2.  You can't educate people against their will.  Grabbing someone by the lapels and demanding that they accept you for whatever you want to express is a sure way to make sure that they don't accept you. 


 


I personally don't advertise it.  I'm not embarassed, and I'll tell someone who I haven't met in a professional manner where I stand.  If someone who I only have a realtionship with in a business capacity asks me, (I run my own business) I'll just say that my business makes it a point to never discuss matters of opinion on politics or religion. 


 


In college I had a few physical altercations, of course I wasn't Heathen then, not that that matters for this point.  I chalk those up to kids full of testosterone.  Since adulthood, I really haven't.  It usually doesn't come up until after some time, and then they have gotten to know the type of person I am.  The honesty, integraty, loyalty and perserverence that comes with my code does more to "educate" them than trying to teach other people about me ever could. 


 


People are interesting creatures.  We're never actually going to accept differences that make us uncomfortable.  This includes me too.  The best we can do is learn to tolerate those things that we don't like, but this internal and dependent on us, and not something we can get other people to do. 


 


I admire your passion, but feel is is out of proportion for the situation. 


 


all

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2010 - 5:40PM #5
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,167

I'm a Christian, not a Pagan, so feel free to dismiss this if necessary. I have a tendency to talk out of my butt sometimes. :)


I'm not sure that city council meetings or mandatory education are good ideas. If people feel as though something is shoved at them (as a mandatory seminar or whatever would be seen), they tend to shove right back. The approach all has used IMO is much more effective. I definitely hear you on your passion, though. In time I think as more information is put out (in a calm manner), acceptance will come easier...that's happening slowly in some areas. Things like this don't come quickly, but it could have to do with where you are.

More where that came from...

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 07, 2010 - 9:50AM #6
Littlebrownbird
Posts: 71

I agree you cannot force people to understand each other....  I am a great believer in the separation of church and state. I'm grateful everyday that we live in a  democracy not a theoacracy. We show people that they have nothing to fear from our differentness every moment with our manner, speech, actions.... being over-defensive and confrontational does nothing but fuel the misunderstanding.  As people get to know us personally they see that we are people of integrety. The things we hold in common are so much greater than the ways we are different.  In the manner of hate crimes and discrimination by employers, the government, landlords.... there are laws to support you.   If you are feeling so completly confined... is it time to let a few of your trusted friends in on your secret? so you can feel freedom, ease and their acceptance? Are you tolerant of their beliefs as you would like to be tolerated? You can agree to disagree without ill feelings.   I do not broadcast that I'm a pagan, tho more than a few people know that I am. Yes I am concerned if certain people will accept me if they knew... but for the most part it is private and not really the public's business what I believe.  When pressed about what church I attend... I tell people that I'd rather be outdoors and pray privately. If I'm present for a group prayer, I feel perfectly comfortable bowing my head and praying along... tho my silent prayer is often different than the one that is being spoken aloud.  If I am asked to be the speaker of the prayer I speak in broad terms that include everyone. Rarely do people even notice the difference if they do it is a "in his name" or the absence of Amen that they notice.  I just tell them that in a group there is the potential for many faiths to be present and I wanted to speak a prayer that included everyone of any faith. Sometimes I am asked to be the prayer speaker again sometimes not.  My husband's family does not ask me to pray.... they really want to hear the "in Jesus' name we pray" and there is no ending but "Amen"   Blessings to all! B.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2011 - 5:46PM #7
TPaine
Posts: 9,427

Thomas Jefferson explains my position on this question far better than I can.

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson: Notes on the State of Virginia, (1781-1783)


"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives." -- General Smedley Butler: War is a Racket (1935)

"War is mankind's most tragic and stupid folly; to seek or advise its deliberate provocation is a black crime against all men. Though you follow the trade of the warrior, you do so in the spirit of Washington — not of Genghis Khan. For Americans, only threat to our way of life justifies resort to conflict." - General of the Army Dwight D. Eisenhower: Graduation Exercises at the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, USA at 3 June 1947
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