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4 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2010 - 12:58PM #11
NATAS
Posts: 844

 


Oct 3, 2010 -- 1:03PM, TPaine wrote:


Thank you for responding, NATAS



 


Your welcome Tom


Oct 3, 2010 -- 11:40AM, NATAS wrote:


 That is an excellent response. I wish more people would believe in having evidence before making an accusation although I admit to making the same mistake in Reverend Jones' case.



Even I make mistakes.


Oct 3, 2010 -- 11:40AM, NATAS wrote:

 Wilbur claimed that:


Freedom of religion is a founding principle of our Constitution and the burning of any people's sacred texts is in direct opposition to this principle."


Phrase  A is accurate, Phrase B is inaccurate.



Prohibiting the burning of any book violates the free speech clause of the First Amendment.



I agree and that is why I do not support those who would inhibit that right even when it appears to be well intentioned


 

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

 There was violence directed at the US in the Muslim world such as flag burning and rock throwing at American troops when Jones announced his plans.



I am aware that there were demonstrations against the US when Jones announced his plan. I am also aware that there were flag burnings and Muslims with signs "Death to America".  This is free speech.  This happened in countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan. 


I am not aware of stones being thrown at American troops.



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

There were clips of people throwing rocks at an American military convoy in Afghanistan on the news. I agree that burning flags and holding signs saying "Death to America" are free speech and agree that people should have every right to do both. 


 


Do you agree that burning an american flag is free speech, holding signs and shouting "Death to America"  is free speech, and burning either a Quran or a translation of  the Quran is free speech? 


Now I don't know if any American military or civilians were injured by Muslims throwing  rocks as a protest.  But I do not think that throwing rocks is protected by free speech. 


Do you agree or disagree?


 

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


The fact that he is an Islamophobe is well documented.



It is not against the law to have phobias. 


 


  


 

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 Threatening to burn a holy book is insulting to the believers of that religion. 


 


Let's look at your statement.


You are claim that just the "threat" of burning a "holy" book is insulting to the believers of that religion. 


If just "threatening" to burn a "holy" book is insulting to the believers of a religions then I think they are being immoderately sensitive. 


I could make the claim that burning "any" book is going to be insulting to someone.  To me a book, is a book, is a book. 


 


 

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

 All of the Muslims I know personally are decent law-abiding citizens, but I find radicals and extremists in any religion somewhat worrisome. 



I agree. I will add that radicals and extremists in any idealogy political or otherwise is somewhat worrisome.  Even radical-extremist atheists.


  


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

 


According to the dictionary a cult can be defined as:

cult – noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.



So this would include all the Abrahamic-Monostheistic Religions.


 



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.



This would include Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad.


 



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 3. the object of such devotion.



This would include the Torah, the Gospel, the Quran.


 



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.



God-Abraham-Torah, Jesus-Gospels, Allah-Quran-Muhammad


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.



The U.S. Constituion, The Pledge of Alligance to the Flag.




Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.



Christian Identity,  Rev. Sun Yng Moon,  Ahamdis any Jewish sect that is not Orthodox


www.google.com/search?q=unorhodox+religi...



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


7. the members of such a religion or sect.



Not-Real, So-Called Jews who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the Torah, Not-Real, So-Called Christians who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the  Gospels, Not-Real, So-Called Muslims  who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the Quran,  Not-Real, So-Called ________ who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the ________.


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.



Faith healers, new age or old age. 




 



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4 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2010 - 3:18PM #12
TPaine
Posts: 9,309

Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:


Oct 3, 2010 -- 1:03PM, TPaine wrote:


Thank you for responding, NATAS



 Your welcome Tom



Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Oct 3, 2010 -- 11:40AM, NATAS wrote:


 That is an excellent response. I wish more people would believe in having evidence before making an accusation although I admit to making the same mistake in Reverend Jones' case.



Even I make mistakes.



I quess that's the curse of being human.


Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Oct 3, 2010 -- 11:40AM, NATAS wrote:

 Wilbur claimed that:


Freedom of religion is a founding principle of our Constitution and the burning of any people's sacred texts is in direct opposition to this principle."


Phrase  A is accurate, Phrase B is inaccurate.



Prohibiting the burning of any book violates the free speech clause of the First Amendment.


I agree and that is why I do not support those who would inhibit that right even when it appears to be well intentioned.



As a civil libertarian, so do I.


 

Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

 There was violence directed at the US in the Muslim world such as flag burning and rock throwing at American troops when Jones announced his plans.



I am aware that there were demonstrations against the US when Jones announced his plan. I am also aware that there were flag burnings and Muslims with signs "Death to America".  This is free speech.  This happened in countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan. 


I am not aware of stones being thrown at American troops.



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

There were clips of people throwing rocks at an American military convoy in Afghanistan on the news. I agree that burning flags and holding signs saying "Death to America" are free speech and agree that people should have every right to do both. 


 


Do you agree that burning an american flag is free speech, holding signs and shouting "Death to America"  is free speech, and burning either a Quran or a translation of  the Quran is free speech? 


Now I don't know if any American military or civilians were injured by Muslims throwing  rocks as a protest.  But I do not think that throwing rocks is protected by free speech. 


Do you agree or disagree?



I agree that burning a flag, holding signs, shouting "Death to America," and burning a book, holy or otherwise, is protected free speech. Acts of violence are not protected speech.


 

Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


The fact that he is an Islamophobe is well documented.



It is not against the law to have phobias.



Agreed 


 

Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 Threatening to burn a holy book is insulting to the believers of that religion. 


 


Let's look at your statement.


You are claim that just the "threat" of burning a "holy" book is insulting to the believers of that religion. 


If just "threatening" to burn a "holy" book is insulting to the believers of a religions then I think they are being immoderately sensitive. 


I could make the claim that burning "any" book is going to be insulting to someone.  To me a book, is a book, is a book.



The right to burn the book is protected. There is no right to be protected from insult. I agree that anyone upset by a threat to burn a book is overly sensitive.


Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

 All of the Muslims I know personally are decent law-abiding citizens, but I find radicals and extremists in any religion somewhat worrisome. 



I agree. I will add that radicals and extremists in any idealogy political or otherwise is somewhat worrisome.  Even radical-extremist atheists.



I agree


Oct 4, 2010 -- 12:58PM, NATAS wrote:

Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:

 


According to the dictionary a cult can be defined as:

cult – noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.



So this would include all the Abrahamic-Monostheistic Religions.


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.



This would include Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad.


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 3. the object of such devotion.



This would include the Torah, the Gospel, the Quran.


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.



God-Abraham-Torah, Jesus-Gospels, Allah-Quran-Muhammad


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


 5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.



The U.S. Constituion, The Pledge of Alligance to the Flag.


 


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.



Christian Identity,  Rev. Sun Yng Moon,  Ahamdis any Jewish sect that is not Orthodox


www.google.com/search?q=unorhodox+religi...



Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


7. the members of such a religion or sect.



Not-Real, So-Called Jews who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the Torah, Not-Real, So-Called Christians who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the  Gospels, Not-Real, So-Called Muslims  who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the Quran,  Not-Real, So-Called ________ who Misunderstand and Misinterpete the ________.


Sep 23, 2010 -- 2:02PM, TPaine wrote:


8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.



Faith healers, new age or old age.



Again, I agree.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2011 - 2:27AM #13
Proletariat44
Posts: 7

People have the right to burn whatever they want on their property. It doesn't matter if its Mein Kampf, the Quran, etc. As long as they don't cause property damage or forest fires, it's their right and their property.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2011 - 2:34AM #14
Proletariat44
Posts: 7

And a side note, I don't like people blaming this guy for Muslims throwing rocks at American soldiers. There's been a war going on since 2001 in Afghanistan and 2003 in Iraq, and you know what, they have been setting IED's, EFPs, and throwing rocks at soldiers for a long time now. To blame this guy for violence perpetrated at our soldiers is just lunacy. They hate the Zionist, Crusader, Humanist invasion forces. To them we are unholy, your whole idea of tolerance, gay rights, and etc is what the majority of Islamic people over there find offensive, and worth resolving through the use of force. They reserve the death penalty for men proved of conducting homosexual conduct.  I think people really need to wake up to what we are fighting over there, and stop living in their politically correct worlds. Violence has been the normal in that region before the wars even happened.

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