Post Reply
Page 2 of 5  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Tolerating Extremism?
7 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2007 - 10:26PM #11
Shelterkeep
Posts: 81

Camel crap! Pedophilia and bigamy are immoral, and illegal in civilized cultures, regardless of how Mohammed or any other "prophet" rationalizes them.


Not all civilized peoples have believed that having more than one marriage partner is immoral, and polygamy in Arab culture preceded him by a very long time. The legality of it depends on what legally constitutes a marriage in the first place in a given culture, whether or not the terms of marriage in that culture can be met in the event of there being multiple spouses, and whether or not the culture has a prejudice about the matter. When it involves consenting adults, the sentiments against it are not really much different from those against homosexuality and marriage between two people of the same sex. (Here's your chance to float the specious argument that all cultures abhor homosexuality, if you like.) In any case, if you think it's immoral to have more than one partner, then don't have one. My girlfriend and I only want the two of us to be in our relationship, but that doesn't mean we go around judging other people.

As for pedophilia, that actually involves a victim, so that's why it's considered wrong. Minors are not psychologically mature enough to give consent, nor are the majority of them physically mature enough for intimate relations. They are also subject to the lack of power that goes with being minors, so they can be manipulated or forced in ways that aren't common to adults as well as more vulnerable than adults to manipulation and force in general. And since any forcing or manipulating of someone into having sex circumvents or denies the ability to withhold consent, putting a minor in that situation would automatically make it immoral and criminal. But you're assuming the relationship was consummated. Not necessarily. In at least some cultures where marriages are created between either an adult and a minor or two minors, the marriage contract is just as legally binding but not consummated until both parties are of age. I don't know what the actual practice was in each and every marriage performed in Islamic culture back then, but I'd consider the rest of what I know about the guy before I'd assume he was being physically intimate with a child when he was that old. I tend to doubt it, especially in light of the fact that the status of women in his culture improved during his time because of his ideas.

Please note that what is thought of as Islamic custom today is not always in keeping with what he taught - veils, women as property, divorce being a simple, immediate act for men. Under his leadership, women and men were both expected to comport themselves modestly (veils came later, as a result of cultural mixing while Islam spread), women gained the right to own property and to initiate divorce (even being able to take their dowry or the equivalent with them when they left), and men were expected to make three real and sincere attempts to work out their differences with their wives before divorcing them, not just quickly say the words three times over to be rid of them. That's why there are Muslims today challenging the extremist views put forth by other believers within their own faith - albeit with great risk to themselves. Please take some time to investigate what these brave risk-takers have to say about original Islam before you make assumptions about the faults of their religion's founder.

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2007 - 8:04PM #12
Jenandew7
Posts: 13,141

John_T_Mainer wrote:

I am Asatru, sworn to Odin who is called Battleglad and Feeder of Ravens, so my own god does not seek peace, but preservation of the people by whatever means necessary. Having said that, Odin teaches of the necessity of war in the defence of the folk. Note the last phase "In defence of the folk".

I serve Odin all the days of my life, but I kill only at the command of Her Majesty the Queen and her elected Parliament. No greater comfort has a soldier than to know that when they fall the gods will gather them home, but it is the service of their people, their civilians, their family, that brings them to the battlefield, not the commands of their god.


John,
I just wanted to say that I very much appreciated your effort here.  It is so non-confrontational, so neutral that it is the type of message that might make it past the great divide.

Annie

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2007 - 9:40PM #13
Brønwyn
Posts: 1,312

jbthegeezer wrote:

God didn't start the war why would a God stop it that is mans job.


Yeah, the man keeps saying the God or Allah told him to do it. The God or Allah may not be saying a single thing, but the man keeps saying that's what he "hears" from his God or Allah. So, if the God or Allah is not a God of war, why do they hear those Gods as saying "Kill" or "Strike" or "Go to war" or "Begin Jihad", etc.?

What makes them think it's okay? Is it in their sacred texts that this is possible to happen? You see? If it's in the texts that this is something that they should/might/may do, then the religion is opening the door for such beliefs -- yes or no?

Do you think it's the religion's fault, or the people's fault, or both?

What I see for sure is that these are people that want to fight and kill....not for their country....but for their religion. Once the religion has won, then the country will win it's freedom to freely perform their religion the way they think it should be exercised and done.

I wonder what you think of that.


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

Hey Bronwyn.I'm Not disagreeing with you just to disagree, But I think I'm gonna have to disagree wiyh you.


That is quite fine. :) Thanks for stepping up to disagree. I always like a good conversation. ;)

friendofsaints&angels wrote:

I didn't even vote for George Busch, But I feel sorry for him. If anything bad happens in the world, It seems that its his fault automatically. Many democrats voted to go too war, And now many of them same democrats are badmouthing Busch, For what they voted for in the first place. I especially love how many people blamed Him for hurricane Katrina. Your living under sea level, Theres a category 5 hurricane coming at you, and you have a weeks notice too leave. HELLO!!!!  I also get a big laugh when people try to make Bill Clinton out to be some kind of saint, And the arguement they usually have too defend him is, Atleast the econemy was in good shape when He was in office. He almost single handidly ran this country into the ground. If you want me too write a book on here explaining all of His mistakes, Just ask and I will reply. What people seem to overlook is that republicans built up the econemy, Then Clinton came in and rode the wave.


So, you feel sorry for GW and you support the Republican way? IMO, GW has been offering too much of himself, and been duped by a lot of what Cheney has told him. However, he hasn't approached the realization that his ideas of SOLVING the Middle East crisis has been a terrible mistake and said so. He keeps staying right on his trail. As a president, do you think it's good to do what you want and not what the people are wanting? To not care what they say?

That is so disgraceful for a president to not care what people think or feel about a situation. He has done this over and over again for years. I feel sorry for him not being able to accept his mistakes and change. It has been a grave mistake what he has done, IMO.


MasterOfSparks wrote:

If they were only hurting themselves I'd say fine. But its the rest of us who have to pay for their stupidity and listen to the disgusting lunacy.


Yeah, it's pretty crazy. :(


ParsonPat wrote:

Brønwyn --Perhaps the word you seek is religiolatry?


Yes, that's on the right train of thought. Idolatry of their religion.


Shelterkeep wrote:

That's why there are Muslims today challenging the extremist views put forth by other believers within their own faith - albeit with great risk to themselves. Please take some time to investigate what these brave risk-takers have to say about original Islam before you make assumptions about the faults of their religion's founder.


I know this comment was not to me, but I'd like to interject to say....I can believe you that there are Muslim risk-takers who are challenging the Muslim extremist views. I really do applaud them, though Al Queda brings a death sentence to them.

I have met very wonderful Muslims!! :)

I hope someday all forms of oppressive religious extremism will be done away with.

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 5:52PM #14
Shelterkeep
Posts: 81

Brønwyn wrote:

I hope someday all forms of oppressive religious extremism will be done away with.


I couldn't agree more! And likewise for the nonreligious forms of oppressive extremism!

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 05, 2008 - 5:41PM #15
friendofsaints&angels
Posts: 1,327
Hey B Thank you for assuming that I represent the republican party, but that was your first mistake. I represnt no party. personally I will, and always have voted for the candidate that I think will best represent our country. If you like to get all wrapped up in the democrats are better than republicans or vise versa, more power to ya, but that would also be a mistake. I think everyone should keep in mind that these people are all politicians. They should have our best interests at hand, but sadly most of the time they don't. (and that goes for all parties involved). I also noticed that you kinda sidestepped a couple of my comments when you responded in your post. Bill Clinton is a crooked schmuck. has been, always will be. He almost single handedly ran this country into the ground, and lied to the whole country at the same time. I never had sexual relations with that woman America. Do you remember that quote? Do you remember Him looking right into the camera and pointing, and saying that? Do you remember when He attacked Kosovo because the reporters were getting too close to the truth about Him doinking Monica Lewinsky? Do you remember Him falling off of Greg Normans porch drunk at 4:30 in the morning, and then the goverment covered that up for Him? It seems that you also sidestepped the issue of the democrats always inheriting the republicans good fortunes. Take a look back through history. The republicans fix the econemy, then get voted out of office, The democrats come in and ride the wave, and then people say, do you remember when so and so was in the White House? atleast the econemy was in good shape. I for one get sick of all the political infighting that I see on both sides of the fence. They do things like rip apart Major Leauge Baseball for steroid allegations, and tell these stars that theyre not setting a good example for the youth of our country, but they are? Most of the time they are all acting worse than a bunch of little school children. I think what alot of these politicians on both sides forget, is that they are ELECTED OFFICIALS, AND HAVE THE INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY AT HAND, AND THEY SHOULD ACT ACCORDINGLY. Its too bad that many of them don't. And if I hear one more candidate compare Himself too JFK, I'm going to stick a sharp object in my eye.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 2:46PM #16
Brønwyn
Posts: 1,312

Shelterkeep wrote:

I couldn't agree more! And likewise for the nonreligious forms of oppressive extremism!


Thank you!

friendofsaints&angels wrote:

Hey B Thank you for assuming that I represent the republican party, but that was your first mistake.


Ooops:(


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

I represnt no party. personally I will, and always have voted for the candidate that I think will best represent our country.


That is nice:D


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

If you like to get all wrapped up in the democrats are better than republicans or vise versa, more power to ya, but that would also be a mistake.


No, I am not like that.


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

I think everyone should keep in mind that these people are all politicians. They should have our best interests at hand, but sadly most of the time they don't. (and that goes for all parties involved).


True.


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

I also noticed that you kinda sidestepped a couple of my comments when you responded in your post.


Sorry:o


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

Bill Clinton is a crooked schmuck. has been, always will be. He almost single handedly ran this country into the ground, and lied to the whole country at the same time. I never had sexual relations with that woman America. Do you remember that quote? Do you remember Him looking right into the camera and pointing, and saying that? Do you remember when He attacked Kosovo because the reporters were getting too close to the truth about Him doinking Monica Lewinsky?


Yes, I remember.


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

Do you remember Him falling off of Greg Normans porch drunk at 4:30 in the morning, and then the goverment covered that up for Him?


No, I don't remember that. I must've missed it.


friendofsaints&angels wrote:

It seems that you also sidestepped the issue of the democrats always inheriting the republicans good fortunes.


I am not a big, fat politician, so I really do not know...other than it is being talked about that this BUSHIE Prez is the worst ever and no good fortunes has he brought, none whatsoever....so, that cycle has surely been broken, if there ever was one.

Well, I am not one to enjoy talking about politics, actually....and this thread is getting off topic too much if it gets into talking only about politics.

What do you have to say about religious extremism? Are you for it or not?:mad:

Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 7:40PM #17
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
Gotta say something here.

friendofsaints&angels wrote:

Bill Clinton is a crooked schmuck. has been, always will be. He almost single handedly ran this country into the ground, and lied to the whole country at the same time. I never had sexual relations with that woman America. Do you remember that quote? Do you remember Him looking right into the camera and pointing, and saying that? Do you remember when He attacked Kosovo because the reporters were getting too close to the truth about Him doinking Monica Lewinsky?


Replace Bill Clinton with George Bush and sex with lying about weapons of mass destruction and you could be describing the current administration.  They are all crooks, otherwise they would never rise to the presidency.  But personally, I would rather someone lie about sex.  Sex doesn't get folks killed.  But that's for another board.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 10:46PM #18
tameless_heart
Posts: 2,084
Politics doesn't make religion either, I'd wager.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2008 - 10:58PM #19
Brønwyn
Posts: 1,312
Hello my friends:D
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2008 - 8:08AM #20
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
Love Ya, Bron!   :D
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 5  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook