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9 years ago  ::  Nov 14, 2008 - 4:04PM #31
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
I really don't know why you should believe in gods if you have never met one.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 14, 2008 - 4:11PM #32
thelam-entor
Posts: 323
[QUOTE=gillyflower;895873]I really don't know why you should believe in gods if you have never met one.[/QUOTE]

I honestly wonder the same thing. Though quite a few people take particular exception to the gall that I should not believe in a god, let alone their own.
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 15, 2008 - 10:02AM #33
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
I think that some people think that if you study about a god or gods then they will eventually get around to noticing you. Some people think that the only way to get noticed by a god is to study about the god and pray to the god. It is the philosophy of believe in him/her and s/he will come. This doesn't fit with my experience.

I am of the opinion that the gods know far more humans than just their followers and take particular notice in this one or that and when they feel that the time is right, they introduce themselves. They chose who they wish as a follower rather than take just anyone even the ones who do things at odds with the god's nature. I don't think that some people believe that the gods actually have free will or the sense to know who they like. The person then has the option to ignore it, feel that it didn't happen, reject it or commence a relationship with that god.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2008 - 8:33AM #34
thelam-entor
Posts: 323
[QUOTE=gillyflower;897227]I think that some people think that if you study about a god or gods then they will eventually get around to noticing you. Some people think that the only way to get noticed by a god is to study about the god and pray to the god. It is the philosophy of believe in him/her and s/he will come. This doesn't fit with my experience.

I am of the opinion that the gods know far more humans than just their followers and take particular notice in this one or that and when they feel that the time is right, they introduce themselves. They chose who they wish as a follower rather than take just anyone even the ones who do things at odds with the god's nature. I don't think that some people believe that the gods actually have free will or the sense to know who they like. The person then has the option to ignore it, feel that it didn't happen, reject it or commence a relationship with that god.[/QUOTE]

They must be pretty picky or inept for the most part then. I say this because no one I have ever met has told me they met any god in any tangible way. Dreams or inferred due to an experience or some fuzzy feeling at best. But if that's the only way a god will interact with you then they either lack the power to do better or aren't taking this whole introduction thing seriously. A god should realize what it would take to make themselves known and understood or they're hardly a god I would think.

The only part that drives me nuts are people who say that people "reject" a god. People say that about me all the time because I rejected their dogma. Well excuse me, but if your god is so weak, or lame as to hide behind books, televangelists, or jihadists or whatever, then why on Earth would I care about them? That's assuming that I believed your god exists rather than you are a nutjob (not you gilly, just generic "you")?

In your experience, has anyone who's "met" a god actually rejected it?
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2008 - 8:47AM #35
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

thelam-entor wrote:

They must be pretty picky or inept for the most part then. I say this because no one I have ever met has told me they met any god in any tangible way. Dreams or inferred due to an experience or some fuzzy feeling at best. But if that's the only way a god will interact with you then they either lack the power to do better or aren't taking this whole introduction thing seriously. A god should realize what it would take to make themselves known and understood or they're hardly a god I would think.

The only part that drives me nuts are people who say that people "reject" a god. People say that about me all the time because I rejected their dogma. Well excuse me, but if your god is so weak, or lame as to hide behind books, televangelists, or jihadists or whatever, then why on Earth would I care about them? That's assuming that I believed your god exists rather than you are a nutjob (not you gilly, just generic "you")?

In your experience, has anyone who's "met" a god actually rejected it?




I have met a goddess who showed up in my kitchen for tea and to slap me silly with a clue by four.  There.  Now you have "met" someone who met a god in a physical way. 

Of course, you are free to call me crazy.  Many here have.  But it is my UPG, and it saved my life.  So I really don't care what folks say about me. 
Now, as to the meeting a god and rejecting it question.  I don't think it is quite that simple. Sometimes, we meet gods who tell us that they are not our gods.  Sometimes we meet gods who tell us that they are our gods and we need to stop whinging about everything around us and get to work doing what we are supposed to be doing.  Sometimes the gods smile on us without ever showing up. 
Gilly told me once that she encountered the Christian God, who flat out told her that she wasn't his. You see?  It is layered. But when a god has chosen you, they won't let go, and with the feeling that you get in their presence, you wouldn't want them to.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2008 - 9:25AM #36
thelam-entor
Posts: 323
[QUOTE=sacrificialgoddess;901050]I have met a goddess who showed up in my kitchen for tea and to slap me silly with a clue by four.  There.  Now you have "met" someone who met a god in a physical way. 

Of course, you are free to call me crazy.  Many here have.  But it is my UPG, and it saved my life.  So I really don't care what folks say about me. 
Now, as to the meeting a god and rejecting it question.  I don't think it is quite that simple. Sometimes, we meet gods who tell us that they are not our gods.  Sometimes we meet gods who tell us that they are our gods and we need to stop whinging about everything around us and get to work doing what we are supposed to be doing.  Sometimes the gods smile on us without ever showing up. 
Gilly told me once that she encountered the Christian God, who flat out told her that she wasn't his. You see?  It is layered. But when a god has chosen you, they won't let go, and with the feeling that you get in their presence, you wouldn't want them to.[/QUOTE]

:)

Your post made me smile, thanks.

I would never argue your experience because to do so would be foolish since I haven't "met" you. When I said "met" before, I meant people I know personally. As to the God situation, it's very frustrating to be told by ignorant followers of a religion that you've done something wrong or were stupid and are missing all the signs when I believe that if such a thing were true, their god is a moron. Since a moronic or weak god is unlikely, the only logical conclusion is that they have no idea what they're talking about at all.

I like your experience though because it's hard to argue with (at least for yourself). I've always said that if the christian god wants me, then he'll have to come get me because like hell am I going to rely on something as brainless as "blind faith".
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2008 - 1:40PM #37
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
I've met my Gods too. I see no reason (I've said this often) for anyone to believe in a god who doesn't bother to speak to them. I believe in my Gods because they have given me reason enough to believe. No one else needs to accept it as anything to do with them.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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9 years ago  ::  Nov 17, 2008 - 2:01PM #38
itty
Posts: 2,949

thelam-entor wrote:

:)

Your post made me smile, thanks.

I would never argue your experience because to do so would be foolish since I haven't "met" you. When I said "met" before, I meant people I know personally. As to the God situation, it's very frustrating to be told by ignorant followers of a religion that you've done something wrong or were stupid and are missing all the signs when I believe that if such a thing were true, their god is a moron. Since a moronic or weak god is unlikely, the only logical conclusion is that they have no idea what they're talking about at all.

I like your experience though because it's hard to argue with (at least for yourself). I've always said that if the christian god wants me, then he'll have to come get me because like hell am I going to rely on something as brainless as "blind faith".



I understand that frustration, thelam. I do. I think you're right when you say we can't argue with the experiences we've had. We had them. I don't know about Gilly or SG but I cannot tell you that the experience of meeting my Gods, and I have, was the most comfortable thing to have happen. It is pretty disconcerting. It was for me. I had NEVER had that sort of experience before. I was awake and sitting under a cottonwood tree when it happened to me. My Gods are the little Gods of the land I am tied to. So when I talk about Them a lot of people tell me I'm crazy because They aren't part of established pantheons like the Greek, Norse, African, Celtic and so forth. They are real. They are here and They chose me. I've met several of Them.

I wouldn't blame you for wondering if we're typing on a computer in an asylum. :o Unverified Personal Gnosis, UPG, isn't something that can be shared. It seems that you know that though.

I am like you. I don't like some followers of certain gods telling me I have to follow their gods because they and their book say so. That won't wash.I won't take any one's word on blind faith either. I don't need to though.  A relaitonship with a god is a personal and private relationship. I will talk about the fact that I have that sort of relationship but I am not going to share the particulars of it here on in any public forum.

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9 years ago  ::  Nov 18, 2008 - 4:02PM #39
Nightwriterx
Posts: 200
[QUOTE=gillyflower;864667]So... if you feel comfortable enough, could you tell us if you have actually met a being that you think could be a god? What does it mean to you? If you haven't, do you feel comfortable following a religion without personally knowing the gods of it?[/QUOTE]

I have not met a god being, and would not follow a religion unless I personally knew its gods. I've done that once before and will never do it again.
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9 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2008 - 7:41PM #40
Ayelet2
Posts: 109
gillyflower:
"I think that some people think that if you study about a god or gods then they will eventually get around to noticing you. Some people think that the only way to get noticed by a god is to study about the god and pray to the god. It is the philosophy of believe in him/her and s/he will come. This doesn't fit with my experience."

It doesn't fit with my experience, either.  My UPG came without warning.  I was a non-religious Jew, minding my own business, going my own agnostic way, when a form of God came to me and told me to convert to a certain religion -- of which I knew nothing about at the time.  And just in case I doubted this was God talking to me, I was provided ongoing proof I couldn't deny, though I tried to for nine years.  Eventually, as impossible as it seemed to me, I converted to this particular religion.  I did my best and tried to conform to the requirements of the religion, but it just didn't work.  God left me, and I was on my own, struggling to be a part of something that just wasn't me.
 
Yet, I knew there must be a reason for the demand that I convert, and, finally, I came to know there were things I needed to learn, and growth I needed to experience.  Really important stuff that I now appreciate.  However, affiliation with this religion is not to be the end of the spiritual road for me.

Call me crazy, but I have had direct contact with the spirits of people who no longer live as mortals.  They have spoken to me and guide me, but, to where, I don't yet know.  They are as emissaries from all that is God, and I know there is so much more for me to learn, but no longer within the religious faith I was originally directed towards.
 
I have no regrets.  I am a MUCH better person as a result of my affiliation with this church.  I have learned to love and to give in ways that were previously unknown to me.  Some of that loving and giving occured right here at Beliefnet through my association with a group on the old Mormon boards.

But, now, I know there is more, and I am capable of a greater association with all that is God.  The only thing I am not sure of is the form this association will eventually take.  What I do know is, the less I try to experience God within the confines of certain predetermined expectations, the more I come to know God.

And about the only thing I am sure of at this point is that whatever God, Gods, or gods is/are, it/they are willing to reach out to us in the form we are best able to understand and accept, as the individuals we are.
 
Without doubt, I believe each one of you who say you have met your God or Gods or gods.
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