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Switch to Forum Live View Church Says It Has Sins
6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 7:53PM #1
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
TrueNorth Members Admit Sins of Church

"People think we're judgmental, hypocritical, intolerant, anti-homosexual, convert-crazy, and sheltered," Mr. Armstrong said. "For the most part, they're right."

He wishes it wasn't so. "I just don't think that's what Christ stood for," he said.


http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/10 … 8218.shtml

What do you think of this?
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 8:37PM #2
TigersEyeDowsing
Posts: 6,833
The first step in fixing a problem is admitting you have one. Good for them!  I can't read the article here where I am right now but I will later.
Churchianity, by substituting creed for Christ and dogma instead of the divine facts of being, has stripped Love of her royal robes and has left her standing an unheeded beggar in the universe of God. - Rev. W. John Murray
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 10:30PM #3
ItsAllALie
Posts: 4,421
If I were a Christian, I'd be praising Jesus right now,,,,I think they're serious,,,,good for them, I have absolute respect for them!!!!! We have a few FRIENDs who could use that!!!!!  Any chance of making an introduction?????Holly
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 07, 2008 - 10:07AM #4
itty
Posts: 2,949
This is a very interesting article. Thank you for bringing it here, Gilly.

I caught this:
[QUOTE]
"For so long, we've worried about life after death, but most people are worried about life until death. Christ talked a lot more about the kingdom now than the kingdom then," Mr. Armstrong said. "We totally missed that boat. And we're sorry."[/QUOTE]

I applaud this church. If more people could just understand this message and promote it then it would certainly be a healing process.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 9:16AM #5
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
I think that some people are beginning to wake up to the fact that it isn't just the government that many people are dissatisfied with. Just like many people don't like the candidates slinging negative nasty stuff at each other instead of addressing issues that are vital to them, they don't like churches doing it either. And they have been. We've seen it on these threads. It is really novel to have a Christian church realize what's gone wrong. I wish them well.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 08, 2008 - 12:36PM #6
TPaine
Posts: 9,339
I think the idea of a church trying to correct it's mistakes is something badly needed today. I fully support the True North Church's efforts. If anyone is interested, they can find the church website at: http://www.truenorthchurch.com/.
Having read some of the comments following the article, where I saw terms such as wackos and cult, it's apparent we still have a long way to go. I wonder if we'll see a Friend of ours tell us that True North is not really Christian.
"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 12, 2008 - 7:31AM #7
sydneymoon
Posts: 3,680
I applaud the efforts of this church. The more they publically state their failings, the more dialog can open up. Perhaps if all churches practiced this act of confession, churches would improve their tattered images of places filled w/ hateful rhetoric and judgement.
Its a far better approach than the hijacked version of Christianity that Pat Robertson and company regularly dole out.
Margaret Mead: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 12, 2008 - 10:45AM #8
Astroturf
Posts: 671
I also appreciate what this particular church is doing.  It does seem that many Christians are questioning the views of the intolerant people within their midst.  I would love it if this church of the OT would make national news, but, hey, thoughtful reason is not good entertainment.  (Cynical of me, I know)  Anyway, at least it's out there.

We do have a long way to go, as TPaine said.  But a thousand-mile journey begins with a single step. ;)  Thank you, TrueNorth.  This almost makes me cry.  People can be very brave.

*hey, TED.*
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 12, 2008 - 12:55PM #9
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488
While I certainly welcome any religion's recognition of reprehensible actions and attitudes (and especially, a religion that proselytizes), this kind of story keeps reminding me of one of the huge self-contradictions that plague the Christian church: On the one hand, they claim to be filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit; on the other hand, they loudly proclaim themselves to be sinners (and an amazing number all claim the title of "the lowliest of sinners").

This does not compute.

If they want to say that they are forgiven for their sins, okay. But if they are filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit, how can they still be sinners? What is accomplished by the presence of the Holy Spirit within them if they are still lowly sinners? Being a "forgiven" lowly sinner doesn't change the condition of being a sinner. How can they err if the Holy Spirit is within them, directing them?

Throughout the past two millennia, Christians have been responsible for at least their fair share of the injustice, corruption, and cruelty in the world -- and yet they were, supposedly, all filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit.

This is the self-contradiction: continuing sinfulness and propensity for error and evil while being filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit.

I have lost count of how often Christians have responded that I do not understand because I am not saved, but when the Holy Spirit comes to me everything will be clear. Well, if that is true, then it means that proselytizing is worse than useless -- for proselytizers speak in words, and I listen to their words and conclude that they are speaking blather, and then they tell me that I cannot understand their words until I am saved. Net result: I am annoyed and irritated. Don't speak words to me if you know I cannot understand them. If the Holy Translator wants me to understand, he'll just have to show up in person and make it clear to me why self-contradiction is actually great truth.
I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 12, 2008 - 12:55PM #10
Heretic_for_Christ
Posts: 5,488
While I certainly welcome any religion's recognition of reprehensible actions and attitudes (and especially, a religion that proselytizes), this kind of story keeps reminding me of one of the huge self-contradictions that plague the Christian church: On the one hand, they claim to be filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit; on the other hand, they loudly proclaim themselves to be sinners (and an amazing number all claim the title of "the lowliest of sinners").

This does not compute.

If they want to say that they are forgiven for their sins, okay. But if they are filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit, how can they still be sinners? What is accomplished by the presence of the Holy Spirit within them if they are still lowly sinners? Being a "forgiven" lowly sinner doesn't change the condition of being a sinner. How can they err if the Holy Spirit is within them, directing them?

Throughout the past two millennia, Christians have been responsible for at least their fair share of the injustice, corruption, and cruelty in the world -- and yet they were, supposedly, all filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit.

This is the self-contradiction: continuing sinfulness and propensity for error and evil while being filled with and directed by the Holy Spirit.

I have lost count of how often Christians have responded that I do not understand because I am not saved, but when the Holy Spirit comes to me everything will be clear. Well, if that is true, then it means that proselytizing is worse than useless -- for proselytizers speak in words, and I listen to their words and conclude that they are speaking blather, and then they tell me that I cannot understand their words until I am saved. Net result: I am annoyed and irritated. Don't speak words to me if you know I cannot understand them. If the Holy Translator wants me to understand, he'll just have to show up in person and make it clear to me why self-contradiction is actually great truth.
I prayed for deliverance from the hard world of facts and logic to the happy land where fantasy and prejudice reign. But God spake unto me, saying, "No, keep telling the truth," and to that end afflicted me with severe Trenchant Mouth. So I'm sorry for making cutting remarks, but it's the will of God.
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