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Switch to Forum Live View Do other Christians really see Catholics as not Christian?
4 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 7:20AM #71
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
This is the first time I've ever heard someone say that Catholics aren't baptized and that's because they are.

Now if you are saying THEY DON'T BAPTIZE PEOPLE THE WAY I WANT THEM TO DO IT well, then that is probably true.

The answer to that is the Catholics have been tight with Yahweh a long time and they don't have to do it your (the general you) way. And if you want proof of that, Catholics all over the world prosper.

I expect for "these" people Presbyterians aren't Christians either. *rolls eyes* And yet they prosper, too.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 7:46AM #72
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
Short rant:

There are people who think that another person who does good works, goes to church, talks to his or her god, prospers, has friends and family and a long happy life -

They actually think that after all that, that person is going to get to heaven and the god is going to say "Sorry, you did one of the practices wrong. You are going to Hell."

If a god is going to do that, he is not worth spit.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 5:02PM #73
Xristocharis
Posts: 5,052
When I was younger I questioned--and at times sharply denied--the "Christian-ness" of Catholics. I can only speak out from my own experiences, but for me the real issue boiled down to the fact that I was convinced that my way of "doing" Christianity was the only permissible and legitimate way and therefore the more different it was from me the more wrong it was. Of course I can say this now in hindsight, at the time the language was "They don't believe the Bible."

As I gradually learned that my opinion and the Bible were two very different things, it became easier to extend my circle of who I embraced as a fellow Christian and sibling in Christ. The issue has shifted from an emphasis of being right to an emphasis on the common struggle to be faithful. Recognizing that I'm as faulty as anyone else, nobody has it "right" and that the Christian struggle to be faithful to Jesus is common among all different kinds of Christians.

I'm a strong believer in orthodoxy and therefore emphasize the importance of orthodoxy, but the best wisdom I've ever heard is from Theophan the Recluse (a 19th century Russian Orthodox saint),

"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins..."

Being right or being wrong, I believe, within the realm of seeking to be a Christian is far less important than the struggle to live the life of faith.

-Jon
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." - Dom Hélder Câmara
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 5:37PM #74
mainecaptain
Posts: 20,478

gillyflower wrote:

Short rant:

There are people who think that another person who does good works, goes to church, talks to his or her god, prospers, has friends and family and a long happy life -

They actually think that after all that, that person is going to get to heaven and the god is going to say "Sorry, you did one of the practices wrong. You are going to Hell."

If a god is going to do that, he is not worth spit.


I agree 100%.Gilly


And Jon that was a very nice post:)

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2009 - 9:43PM #75
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,662

gillyflower wrote:

This is the first time I've ever heard someone say that Catholics aren't baptized and that's because they are.

Now if you are saying THEY DON'T BAPTIZE PEOPLE THE WAY I WANT THEM TO DO IT well, then that is probably true.

The answer to that is the Catholics have been tight with Yahweh a long time and they don't have to do it your (the general you) way. And if you want proof of that, Catholics all over the world prosper.

I expect for "these" people Presbyterians aren't Christians either. *rolls eyes* And yet they prosper, too.


...the Pope abides?:cool:

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 1:02AM #76
Tpaine
Posts: 8,197

Bro. Steve Winter wrote:

The RCC does not obey the Acts 2:38 salvation that Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost so they are not really Biblical Christians.

Bro. Winter


Acts 2: 38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is to you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with very many other words did he testify and exhort them, saying: Save yourselves from this perverse generation.
41 They therefore that received his word, were baptized; and there were added in that day about three thousand souls.
42 And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: many wonders also and signs were done by the apostles in Jerusalem, and there was great fear in all.
44 And all they that believed, were together, and had all things common.
45 Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need.
46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart;
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord increased daily together such as should be saved.
Source:Acts 2 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition.)http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?bo … version=63


It seems to me they do exactly what their bible tells them to do as based on Acts 2:38. You might not like the way they interpret their scripture, or the version of the bible they use, but from the Great Schism in 1054 CE until Calvin broke with the RCC  in 1520 CE, they were the only game in town.

"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 7:50AM #77
gillyflower
Posts: 5,325
Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need.

How many do that I wonder?
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 3:17PM #78
Tpaine
Posts: 8,197

gillyflower wrote:

Their possessions and goods they sold, and divided them to all, according as every one had need.

How many do that I wonder?


I doubt if it's the ones that have ATM's in their churches.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 00753.html

"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2009 - 2:51PM #79
itty
Posts: 2,949

Bro. Steve Winter wrote:

The RCC does not obey the Acts 2:38 salvation that Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost so they are not really Biblical Christians.

Bro. Winter


I am very glad you don't get to choose.  You can say what you want and you are not the Chrisitan thought police that gets to enforce it.  That is completely and entirely not within your purview.   You can believe what you want. I support your right to do so. I also think you are completely and hopelessly wrong with regard to the RCC and its thelogy, doctrine and dogma.

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2009 - 3:17PM #80
Bro. Steve Winter
Posts: 357

itty wrote:

I am very glad you don't get to choose.  You can say what you want and you are not the Chrisitan thought police that gets to enforce it.  That is completely and entirely not within your purview.   You can believe what you want. I support your right to do so. I also think you are completely and hopelessly wrong with regard to the RCC and its thelogy, doctrine and dogma.


Thank you for your reply.  Maybe then you could clarify more details about your sincere faith and worship belief system.    Why do you claim Peter as pope while you reject the Acts 2:38 salvation message that he preached?

I also have a few more specific catholic questions.

1. Which one of the statues has more power, and are they specialized? IE Would you bother the Mary statue for a minor car repair problem, or would a lesser idol work?

2. Do they kiss on the other bigger idols, like they do the little cross idol? And does the "call no man father" guy wipe the bigger idols between kisses like the cross idol?

3. Can the priests turn other food items into god, or does it just work on cookies?

4. When the priests turn cookies into god, does it act as a preservative? (possible uses in the food industry, much money could be made for the poor)....

5. If a shrine has more than one Mary idol, will they function simultaneously?

6. If the Mary idol is more powerful, and they will function simultaneously, why not just use bunches of Mary idols?

7. Do bigger idols have more power than the little bitty ones?

8. Do ceramic idols have more "oomph" and "whammy" than plastic ones?

9. Do the Mary idols have more "zing", "oomph" and "whammy" than the other idols?

10. Since your priests can turn wine into blood, can that blood be used for transfusions?   Think of the lives that could be saved!

Thanks for sharing with us regarding the intimate details of your devout faith and worship of little thingies and grand ceramic creations.

Regards,

Bro. Winter

For Bible Doctrine http://www.prime.org
For Christian music: http://www.winterband.com
Obey Acts 2:38 to be a Christian and the other verses to remain one.
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