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Switch to Forum Live View One's relationship to the Divine
6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 8:34AM #41
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

williejhonlo wrote:

I'm sorry if you think i insulted you, but i didn't mention any particular God or gods, i was just talking about what the metaphor meant





To you, perhaps.  Metaphors mean different things to different people.  That is why they are metaphors, not facts.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 12:51PM #42
sirjacen
Posts: 963
Itty,

I never said anything about your relationship with "a" god, I was simply asking for how you see your relationship with your gods and I specifically asked why not in a spousal or romantic way...out of pure curiosity to try to understand your perspective.  Thank you for sharing further.  I certainly see the obstacle as to why you don't liken it to a spousal relationship.

As far as how I see my relationship I can take bits and pieces of most anything, but never the whole thing.  Jesus is called our brother and I see aspects of that, but I can't limit it to a sibling relationship.  I see aspects of a divine romance, but not sexually and I can't limit it to the kind of relationship I have with my wife.  I see aspects of having a teacher, but I can't limit it to that.  I see aspects of having a father, of having a mother, and so on and so on.  I can't even say which one it is most like, because  as Maine said those are all beautiful, but different.  Echoes perhaps.  Does that make sense?


peace...jason
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 12:53PM #43
sirjacen
Posts: 963
[QUOTE=mainecaptain;716264]I have been trying to be care how  word things, since a board like this our words can be misunderstood, I respect Jacen and do not wish to appear insulting to his relationship with deity or.[/QUOTE]

It would just be a lot easier if we gave everyone the benefit of the doubt, instead of the many times we jump to conlcusions rather than let someone explain themself further.  As far as I'm concerned, I don't usually get insulted by too much (even by what is meant as insult) and will strive to ask clarifying questions before jumping any gun.  You haven't appeared insulting to me at all.


peace...jason
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 5:46PM #44
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,444
[QUOTE=sacrificialgoddess;718360]To you, perhaps.  Metaphors mean different things to different people.  That is why they are metaphors, not facts.[/QUOTE] Still though, just ones understanding is being expressed.
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 27, 2008 - 11:06PM #45
TigersEyeDowsing
Posts: 6,833
What about those of us who live in the mountains, who marry our sisters, and then later become married to God by becoming monks or priests or nuns?

Then our relationship is sibling, spouse, and God, all at once?  Or is it God is like our spouse, which is like our sibling? 

Just trying to lighten the mood a tad :p
Churchianity, by substituting creed for Christ and dogma instead of the divine facts of being, has stripped Love of her royal robes and has left her standing an unheeded beggar in the universe of God. - Rev. W. John Murray
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2008 - 8:39AM #46
Redfrog777
Posts: 2,136
As a pantheist every mood and every feeling and every relationship is an expression of the divine. There is no separation.
I have a spousal relationship to the divine because I have a spousal relationship with my wife.
I have a paternal relationship with the divine because #1 I have a parent that I have a relationship with. #2 I myself have become a parent.
I have a sibling relationship because I have siblings.
Etc.etc. All of life and living is the divine. Including all the death and dieing that goes with it. There is simply nothing that is not (really looking for a better word here) God.

If God created all things? From what did God create?

That is of course assuming that there is a God, LOL.

I also have very deeply moving experiences where I am immersed in the totality of the mystery. I have no relationships that compare to these emersions. And I know that this is part of the mystery too.

P.S. I really don’t like the connotation’s that are associated with the word God. Too many assumptions and limitations and impositions to go along with it.

Do you think that means that God, doesn’t like the word God?
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2008 - 9:24AM #47
Chiyo
Posts: 5,799
[QUOTE]RedFrog; P.S. I really don’t like the connotation’s that are associated with the word God. Too many assumptions and limitations and impositions to go along with it.
[/QUOTE]

AGREED!

[QUOTE]
[COLOR=black]RedFrog; Do you think that means that God, doesn’t like the word God?

[/QUOTE]

o_O[/COLOR]
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2008 - 2:33PM #48
itty
Posts: 2,949
[QUOTE=sirjacen;718823]Itty,

I never said anything about your relationship with "a" god, I was simply asking for how you see your relationship with your gods and I specifically asked why not in a spousal or romantic way...out of pure curiosity to try to understand your perspective.  Thank you for sharing further.  I certainly see the obstacle as to why you don't liken it to a spousal relationship.[/QUOTE]

:) I know you were asking about my Gods, Jacen. That is why I answered you as I did. I am glad you can see what I was trying to say. I think you question was a good one. It certainly made me think. There is a strong bond of mutual love in my relationship with my Gods. it just isn't spousal or romantice. It is, as I outlined, one of siblings, friends, partners and more.

Frog touches on one Mystery of my tradition when he speaks of a spousal relationship with the universe exemplified in his intimacy with his wife.  I know he said a lot more but that is one point that jumped out at me. The Great Rite, in my religon touches on this particular love and intimacy in a profound way. It is a Mystery that I cannot explain. You also have to understand my religion and my daily fath and spiritual practice are, most of the time, not the same.:ee: More nfusion to mix into the stew.:p

[QUOTE]
As far as how I see my relationship I can take bits and pieces of most anything, but never the whole thing.  Jesus is called our brother and I see aspects of that, but I can't limit it to a sibling relationship.  I see aspects of a divine romance, but not sexually and I can't limit it to the kind of relationship I have with my wife.  I see aspects of having a teacher, but I can't limit it to that.  I see aspects of having a father, of having a mother, and so on and so on.  I can't even say which one it is most like, because  as Maine said those are all beautiful, but different.  Echoes perhaps.  Does tat make sense?


peace...jason[/QUOTE]

It makes perfect, Jacen. It also sounds very similar to the relationship I have with my Gods. I think in one way my Gods are more immediate. They are not 'out there' but are 'right here'. They have never shown themselves to be transcendent. They are in the sense that They, like I am, are part of the Divine but they are immanent and work in this world. Now I HOPE I am making sense. I am not insulting your faith or religion here. I am, I hope, drawing a bit of a parallel as well as a contrast. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

This is Friday before Labor Day. I am getting ready to go camping and I just got a delightful bit of news. A dear friend who is a truck driver is going to be able to stop in this area and we are going to get to see each other! I am so excited! We haven't seen each other in nearly a year!  Oh JOY!  OH HAPPY itty is doing her itty HAPPY DANCE!

Blessings and peace to you Jacen,

itty
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 6:42PM #49
TigersEyeDowsing
Posts: 6,833
[QUOTE=Redfrog777;723295]As a pantheist every mood and every feeling and every relationship is an expression of the divine. There is no separation.
I have a spousal relationship to the divine because I have a spousal relationship with my wife.
I have a paternal relationship with the divine because #1 I have a parent that I have a relationship with. #2 I myself have become a parent.
I have a sibling relationship because I have siblings.
Etc.etc. All of life and living is the divine. Including all the death and dieing that goes with it. There is simply nothing that is not (really looking for a better word here) God.

If God created all things? From what did God create?

That is of course assuming that there is a God, LOL.

I also have very deeply moving experiences where I am immersed in the totality of the mystery. I have no relationships that compare to these emersions. And I know that this is part of the mystery too.

P.S. I really don’t like the connotation’s that are associated with the word God. Too many assumptions and limitations and impositions to go along with it.

Do you think that means that God, doesn’t like the word God?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chiyo;723366]AGREED!

[/QUOTE]

This pantheist thirds it!
Churchianity, by substituting creed for Christ and dogma instead of the divine facts of being, has stripped Love of her royal robes and has left her standing an unheeded beggar in the universe of God. - Rev. W. John Murray
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 9:30AM #50
sirjacen
Posts: 963
[QUOTE=itty;724280]It makes perfect, Jacen. It also sounds very similar to the relationship I have with my Gods. I think in one way my Gods are more immediate. They are not 'out there' but are 'right here'. They have never shown themselves to be transcendent. They are in the sense that They, like I am, are part of the Divine but they are immanent and work in this world. Now I HOPE I am making sense. I am not insulting your faith or religion here. I am, I hope, drawing a bit of a parallel as well as a contrast. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.[/QUOTE]

I do not think you are insulting my faith at all.  One thing I'm unclear on is whether you are saying it is a contrast that I view my God as "out there", while you view your Gods as "right here."  If you see the contrast in our views being that your Gods are more immediate.  If so, I would disagree because I see my God as very immediate.  I'm not sure what you mean by God being "out there," really.  I think many people do see the God of Christianity as being "out there," and that many Christians portray that...so, again, I don't see it as an insult if this is your thinking concerning my view.  I'm just trying to understand and share my understanding as well as we can.  But perhaps your statement about your Gods being more immediate was not contrasted against what you see of my view of my God...but rather a general statement?


peace...jason
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