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Switch to Forum Live View "Many Worlds" and Noah: the Great Deluge really happened!
3 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2015 - 12:51PM #11
Oncomintrain
Posts: 3,516

Mar 3, 2015 -- 12:47PM, d_p_m wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 12:38PM, Oncomintrain wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 12:33PM, d_p_m wrote:


Hmmm.... thinking about mathematics... Not every true theorem can be proven. Not every false theorem can be disproven. Some calculations cannot be bounded in execution time. Some infinities are larger than other infinities.


Is there room, somewhere in MWI, for 'not every possible universe will happen' (in finite time???)?




Well... depends what you mean, I think. My understanding, the essence of MWI is that quantum behavior diverges (and therefore universes "split") at every single quantum "decision point." So every universe that CAN exist -- in light of all decision points to date -- DOES exist.


So we are restricted to the set of universes that A) can be reached by divergent quantum "decisions", B) in the amount of time that has so far passed.


So we don't have every PLAUSIBLE universe (every universe we can think up), but only every universe that is POSSIBLE within those constraints.


Can someone who has actually studied the topic confirm whether I've understood the theory correctly?




Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking... somewhat.


Do quantum decision distributions spread out like oil on water, or branch like trees? Are there gaps? Are these analogies broken? Are there 'you can't get there from here' points?




I think so yes, to your last question. As for the rest... I dunno.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2015 - 1:59PM #12
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 10:22AM, d_p_m wrote:


Many Worlds would imply that anything that can happen will happen. That still does nothing for that which cannot happen. The description in Genesis is probably impossible in any universe.




Don't neglect the possibility of grad students from Intergalactic U on break playing pranks . . . .


Cool

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2015 - 2:04PM #13
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 12:47PM, d_p_m wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 12:38PM, Oncomintrain wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 12:33PM, d_p_m wrote:


Hmmm.... thinking about mathematics... Not every true theorem can be proven. Not every false theorem can be disproven. Some calculations cannot be bounded in execution time. Some infinities are larger than other infinities.


Is there room, somewhere in MWI, for 'not every possible universe will happen' (in finite time???)?




Well... depends what you mean, I think. My understanding, the essence of MWI is that quantum behavior diverges (and therefore universes "split") at every single quantum "decision point." So every universe that CAN exist -- in light of all decision points to date -- DOES exist.


So we are restricted to the set of universes that A) can be reached by divergent quantum "decisions", B) in the amount of time that has so far passed.


So we don't have every PLAUSIBLE universe (every universe we can think up), but only every universe that is POSSIBLE within those constraints.


Can someone who has actually studied the topic confirm whether I've understood the theory correctly?




Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking... somewhat.


Do quantum decision distributions spread out like oil on water, or branch like trees? Are there gaps? Are these analogies broken? Are there 'you can't get there from here' points?




Frak -- I can't remember the author, or a book title, but I reada great sci fi novel that rested on the idea that insignificant variations "collase" back into a single time stream, and the only ones (so theorized scientists in the novel) that endured were those where intelligence either had or could arise.


Wouldn't that be a sort of mix of MW and the Copenhagen idea?  (Hope I'm remembering my quantum 'schools' right.)

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2015 - 2:28PM #14
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Mar 3, 2015 -- 2:04PM, Roymond wrote:


Frak -- I can't remember the author, or a book title, but I reada great sci fi novel that rested on the idea that insignificant variations "collase" back into a single time stream, and the only ones (so theorized scientists in the novel) that endured were those where intelligence either had or could arise.




That sounds a bit like Asimov's The End of Eternity, though I don't recall the last point.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2015 - 2:29PM #15
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Mar 3, 2015 -- 1:59PM, Roymond wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 10:22AM, d_p_m wrote:


Many Worlds would imply that anything that can happen will happen. That still does nothing for that which cannot happen. The description in Genesis is probably impossible in any universe.




Don't neglect the possibility of grad students from Intergalactic U on break playing pranks . . . .





Luckily, that only happens in a small infinity of universes...

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 2:46AM #16
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 2:28PM, d_p_m wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 2:04PM, Roymond wrote:


Frak -- I can't remember the author, or a book title, but I reada great sci fi novel that rested on the idea that insignificant variations "collase" back into a single time stream, and the only ones (so theorized scientists in the novel) that endured were those where intelligence either had or could arise.




That sounds a bit like Asimov's The End of Eternity, though I don't recall the last point.




You're right on that, but this was a much more recent work.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 2:49AM #17
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 2:29PM, d_p_m wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 1:59PM, Roymond wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 10:22AM, d_p_m wrote:


Many Worlds would imply that anything that can happen will happen. That still does nothing for that which cannot happen. The description in Genesis is probably impossible in any universe.




Don't neglect the possibility of grad students from Intergalactic U on break playing pranks . . . .




Luckily, that only happens in a small infinity of universes...




We hope.  ;)


I saw a botany professor use that "hypothesis" for where flowering plants came from, back when that was still a really fuzzy issue, as a way of showing ust how clueless botanists were at the time.  It sort of stuck with me.

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