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Switch to Forum Live View Hard Evidence for a Multiverse?
5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 9:57AM #1
rsielin
Posts: 4,997

This piece caught my eye as an excellent example of science at work following the evidence where it logically leads and not bound to any convential wisdom or dogma. It (factual evidence) is what it is. And it's up to science to explain it within our accumulated knowledge. Sometimes we get new science out of it. To turn away and write this evidence off as a "miracle" is to stick our heads in the sand and admit to stupidity. 

The first 'hard evidence' that other universes exist has been found by scientists.


Cosmologists studying a map of the universe from data gathered by the Planck spacecraft have concluded that it shows anomalies that can only have been caused by the gravitational pull of other universes.


The map shows radiation from the Big Bang 13.8billion years ago that is still detectable in the universe - known as cosmic microwave radiation.


Scientists had predicted that it should be evenly distributed, but the map shows a stronger concentration in the south half of the sky and a 'cold spot' that cannot be explained by current understanding of physics.


Cambridge professor of theoretical physics Malcolm Perry told the Sunday Times that the findings could be real evidence of the existence of other universes.


While George Efstathiou, professor of astrophysics at the university, told the newspaper: 'Such ideas may sound wacky now, just like the Big Bang theory did three generations ago. But then we got evidence and now it has changed the whole way we think about the universe.'



www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-...

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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 12:46PM #2
MMarcoe
Posts: 20,907

Is this related in any way to the idea that every choice we make creates a whole new, real universe?


Or is that something tangential or totally unrelated?

1. Extremists think that thinking means agreeing with them.
2. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.
3. God is the original nothingness of the universe.
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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 1:14PM #3
rsielin
Posts: 4,997

May 23, 2013 -- 12:46PM, MMarcoe wrote:

Is this related in any way to the idea that every choice we make creates a whole new, real universe?


No. I believe what you are referring to is in quantum physics and the Schrodinger equation. It describes all the possibilities future outcomes but at the point of "now" the equation collapses to reality of one outcome. Or possibly you’re thinking about a quantum thought experiment whereas in an infinite universe, all possible outcomes play simultaneously.


What this is is direct evidence from the Planck spacecraft measuring precisely the expected quantum fluxuations in the temperature of the microwave radiation and an unexpected anomaly. Scientists love that, gives them a unknown to explain. One possible explanation for the anomaly, if confirmed by peer review to be an anomaly, is a gravitional pull from outside our universe. What could exist to exert a gravitional pull but another Universe. And if there's one, there could be two or more.


We know there's billion plus stars in a galaxy, and we know there's a billion plus galaxies in our observable universe; why not there be a billion plus universes?


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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 2:43PM #4
Ridcully
Posts: 3,747

I wouldn't get too excited yet about other universes based on the CMB map. The variance of the background temperature (e.g., the cold spot) fluctuations is not known. I suspect that physicists/cosmologists will/do have multiple (pun intended) possible explanations for the data.


The real news, from what little I've read, is that we are finding a universe that fits pretty well with what we already know. It's a little older that we thought, has a little more matter than we thought, etc., but it fits with our standard ideas quite well. 


No relief in sight for a 10,000 year old universe, as if that needed to be said.  Tongue Out

"Things just happen, what the hell."  Didactylos
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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 2:48PM #5
Ridcully
Posts: 3,747

May 23, 2013 -- 1:14PM, rsielin wrote:


May 23, 2013 -- 12:46PM, MMarcoe wrote:

Is this related in any way to the idea that every choice we make creates a whole new, real universe?


No. I believe what you are referring to is in quantum physics and the Schrodinger equation. It describes all the possibilities future outcomes but at the point of "now" the equation collapses to reality of one outcome. Or possibly you’re thinking about a quantum thought experiment whereas in an infinite universe, all possible outcomes play simultaneously.




In general, the many worlds idea is associated with Hugh Everett, and yes, as Rsielin noted is concerned with collapsing waveforms in quantum mechanics...and stuff like that makes me feel stupid...in general. Undecided

"Things just happen, what the hell."  Didactylos
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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 4:19PM #6
rsielin
Posts: 4,997

May 23, 2013 -- 2:43PM, Ridcully wrote:

I wouldn't get too excited yet about other universes based on the CMB map. The variance of the background temperature (e.g., the cold spot) fluctuations is not known. I suspect that physicists/cosmologists will/do have multiple (pun intended) possible explanations for the data.


Oh, I'm always excited with new data particularly if there's an anomaly to explain but agree there are many creditable explanations for now besides a multiverse. 


The broader point is that this is science at work. Always curious, always looking. And as the precision of scientific tools increases (exponentially lately) its no real surprise where that new evidence will lead. 


For those betting their life on a preset fixed answer, this kind of contining discovery must be quirt disturbing. 


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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 4:22PM #7
57
Posts: 28,191

Scientists had predicted that it should be evenly distributed, but the map shows a stronger concentration in the south half of the sky and a 'cold spot' that cannot be explained by current understanding of physics.




...oops.  Once again time to change the facts.  Thanks for the article. 

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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 4:29PM #8
MMarcoe
Posts: 20,907

May 23, 2013 -- 4:22PM, 57 wrote:


Scientists had predicted that it should be evenly distributed, but the map shows a stronger concentration in the south half of the sky and a 'cold spot' that cannot be explained by current understanding of physics.




...oops.  Once again time to change the facts.  Thanks for the article. 





Sorry the grapes are so sour for you people who can't stand the way real science works.


You are the ones who will end up out in the cold.

1. Extremists think that thinking means agreeing with them.
2. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.
3. God is the original nothingness of the universe.
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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 4:29PM #9
rsielin
Posts: 4,997

May 23, 2013 -- 4:22PM, 57 wrote:

Scientists had predicted that it should be evenly distributed,


Not surprising but you are mistaken again. No scientist predicted that it would be evenly distributed. Scientists were the first to say for galaxies to form there had to be variation in temperature. However, it took the extreme precision of todays instruments to see the variation. 


Once again time to change the facts.


No facts are changing. New evidence with more precise tools builds upon exisitng knowledge. 

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5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 4:30PM #10
MMarcoe
Posts: 20,907

May 23, 2013 -- 4:22PM, 57 wrote:


Scientists had predicted that it should be evenly distributed, but the map shows a stronger concentration in the south half of the sky and a 'cold spot' that cannot be explained by current understanding of physics.




...oops.  Once again time to change the facts.  Thanks for the article. 





Lol. I remember when "variation within kinds" was a changing of the old facts for creos.


 


 

1. Extremists think that thinking means agreeing with them.
2. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.
3. God is the original nothingness of the universe.
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