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Switch to Forum Live View Miracles make people stupid
5 years ago  ::  May 23, 2013 - 10:30PM #61
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

Nope ...


I do NOT stand with ANY of the ALL-or-NOTHING "Fundamentalist" Camps ...


May 22, 2013 -- 11:25PM, Blü wrote:


teilhard


YECs peddle nonsense and antiscience.


They lie, mislead, deceive to do so.


They teach it to children as though it were true.


You don't think that's contemptible?


 

Moderated by Jcarlinbn on May 24, 2013 - 12:34AM
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5 years ago  ::  May 24, 2013 - 11:00AM #62
Blü
Posts: 26,191

teilhard


No, you just prefer them to the truth.


But you're entitled to do that in a free country.


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5 years ago  ::  May 24, 2013 - 11:58AM #63
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Teilhard:


"Except ...



There ARE diverging Understandings of Biological Evolution -- how it works and especially, what it MEANS ...



VERY serious Scientists such as Niles Eldredge and (the Late) Steve Gould, e.g., DON'T have the SAME "take" on Evolution, as does, say, Rick Dawkins ...



I personally scientifically and religiously am OFTEN exasperated and offended by the mutual Recrimination and snotty Disdain so commonly expressed in these (supposed) "Discussions" ... (ONE Reason I don't take an active Role very often for the last few Years ... There seems to be no bloody POINT ...)"


Yeah. That's not very catholic of scientists, now is it? Arguing different interpretations of evidence.


Thank god your church doesn't do that........................

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5 years ago  ::  May 24, 2013 - 6:16PM #64
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

We Human Beings FAMOUSLY argue, discuss, explore, think, and argue and discuss some more, think, reflect, explore some MORE, and ON and ON ... 


I "DIG" it ...



May 24, 2013 -- 11:58AM, wohali wrote:


Teilhard:


"Except ... There ARE diverging Understandings of Biological Evolution -- how it works and especially, what it MEANS ...


VERY serious Scientists such as Niles Eldredge and (the Late) Steve Gould, e.g., DON'T have the SAME "take" on Evolution, as does, say, Rick Dawkins ...


I personally scientifically and religiously am OFTEN exasperated and offended by the mutual Recrimination and snotty Disdain so commonly expressed in these (supposed) "Discussions" ... (ONE Reason I don't take an active Role very often for the last few Years ... There seems to be no bloody POINT ...)"


Yeah. That's not very catholic of scientists, now is it? Arguing different interpretations of evidence.


Thank god your church doesn't do that........................





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5 years ago  ::  May 25, 2013 - 11:38AM #65
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Teilhard, you must dig it, because like myself you keep hanging around here, despite your hollow prostestations..........................

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5 years ago  ::  May 25, 2013 - 2:26PM #66
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

I still hang around in the "Science & Religion" Discussion Area, but I don't post much in it any more ...


May 25, 2013 -- 11:38AM, wohali wrote:


Teilhard, you must dig it, because like myself you keep hanging around here, despite your hollow prostestations..........................





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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2013 - 6:31AM #67
timothysmiles
Posts: 123

May 19, 2013 -- 12:04AM, teilhard wrote:

A "Miracle" ISN'T "Magic" (or "Magick," either ...)


A "Miracle" is an unexpected undeserved Instance (Experience) of the Power and Mercy and Grace of "God" ...


It may be a "Healing" ... It may be a Phone Call or an Embrace or a Kind Word ... It may be an apparently Chance Encounter with a Stranger (Who turns out to have been an Angel-Messenger from Heaven) ...


The "Miracles" I have received haven't made ME "stupid" ... They have left me grateful and inspired and more Realistic about "God," Life, The Universe and Everything ...



May 17, 2013 -- 8:03PM, rsielin wrote:


Miracles make people stupid.


The presence of miracles in your worldview will always stunt innovative and creative thinking skills, because why go through all the work to understand anything if was all just magic? 


Humans are capable of accomplishing amazing, near-miracle things because we've become really, really good at exploiting the physics of our world around us. The process of getting there takes time and experimentation, failure and perseverance. And every success is related to careful understanding of how the overall process works, and the fundamental rules of the physical world.


With magic, while there seems to be Biblical study involved, the results are never really directly relatable to the actions. With a magical process, there's no reason for anything like a scientific method to develop, and no need for the cycle of observation, experimentation, examination, or testing of our understanding.


Think about the differences in learning to make a simple flashlight in a 9th grade science class. You would learn about the chemical reactions of batteries, the fundamentals of electromagnetism, of the conductivity of wires, of the resistance of a light bulb filament and how it glows when current runs through it, and then finally you get to take some wire, a little flashlight bulb, and a D cell and get a feeble little light. Magic gets you light-made-in-transit effortlessly and instantaneously. Light, yes; understanding, no. No brains required.


Humans are great at exploiting the loopholes of the natural world to make lives better and more interesting, but as soon as you get that crutch of magic all that curiosity and innovation goes out the window. Natural world miracles make us stupid. 






teilhard  I totaly agree with you praise the Lorrd

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