Jul 6, 2012 -- 10:32PM, steven_guy wrote:

Jul 6, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Ken wrote:

Jul 6, 2012 -- 8:25PM, McAtheist wrote:

ken: There's no such thing as baraminology.

Well, there is something, it just doesn't seem to be scientific.  I don't know what to call it --- pseudo-scientific theology?

Too long. Think in terms of words of one syllable. A single four-letter word should do it.

"Crap"? "Shit"? "Pooh"?

I was going to say "balls", but that has five letters.

The first two are good. So is "cack." I prefer the three-letter spelling of "pooh." "Caca" is suitable for discussing baraminology with young children

Jul 7, 2012 -- 2:56PM, Adam930 wrote:

McAtheist: I could respect someone who says they know that the evidence doesn't support their position but choose to stick with the Bible anyway --- I don't agree, but it is at least honest.

But for someone to repeatedly claim that evidence and science support their position when they don't and to then resort to magic to fix their "scientific mode" is just blatant dishonesty.  I see nothing to respect in that.

iama:  I thought, therefore, that you might appreciate the following article:

A Tale of Two Scientists: What Really Happened 'In the Beginning'

Adam 930: Well, Iama, I've followed your link, and right there - hitting me in the face - was this statement from your creation scientist:

We all have enormous unanswered questions, whether scientific or biblical. We all see through a glass darkly

To which I reply:

Indeed.

So, what are we going to do about it? How does a person go about looking for answers to difficult but interesting questions?

Should we guess? Live our entire lives in wild speculation? Accept dogmatically what our favorite scientist/churchman is telling us to believe?

iama:  We hypothesize and then investigate if possible, scientifically.

Speculations can lead to hypotheses leading to scientific investigations, if they are possible.

Realize that scientists don't have, currently, all of the historic data required to make their dating claims.

Hang loose regarding the Origins of Life, Origins of Everything, scientifically, because no scientists, currently, has access to what took place during The Earth / The Universe timeline.

Hold to that which is, bibilically, stated regarding The Origin of All Things.

Realize that the ToE REQUIRES long-ages, but even those long-ages are insufficient regarding The Origin of All Things.

Continue to conduct scientific research regarding all things regarding The Creation as it, currently, presents itself, realizing that we don't have documented, observational evidence for what took place historically, regarding The Earth / The Universe and "all that in them is."

Science does function, currently, but science CANNOT reach back into The Earth / The Universe history.

The Bible / Genesis tells us what our Creator-God desires for us to know regarding The Creation, and The Earth's history.  If scientists disagree with The Bible's recorded history, then scientists should consider that they are missing historical data which would / should be taken into consideration.

Without long-ages, as a parameter in the ToE speculation, it becomes a non-entity paradigm.

Without The Fall of Adam / humanity and "The Law of Sin and Death" survival of the fittest and natural selection are speculated and mutations must reproduce the life-forms existing today.

Without The Flood, as a parameter in the ToE speculation, uniformitarianism and the Geologic Time Scale are used to explain the sedimentary layers containing the millions of fossils.

Without The Savior / God-Son, incarnate / miracles performed ~2,000 years ago in Israel, abiogenesis must have occurred and scientists are, continually, seeking to reproduce life, albeit with our Creator-God's created materials.

The Bible is the inerrant, normal recording of language by human recorders, and historically accurate, or it is not.

When you reduce The Bible to accommodate the ToE, you reduce our Creator-God and His Works / His Power / His Plan / His Godhead / etc., and His Written Word becomes, merely, what humans choose it to be / to mean / etc.

He either is what He claims to be, or He isn't.  There is no middle ground of modernism / humanism / etc.

Science should be subservient to The Bible and its Creator-God, and not The Bible and its Creator-God becoming subservient to science / scientists.

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Jul 12, 2012 -- 4:33PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

Science does function, currently, but science CANNOT reach back into The Earth / The Universe history.

It can and it does. What you said untrue. Why did you say it? Do you believe it or do you know that what you said is simply not true.

Go outside on a clear night. You can see objects that are greater than 6,000 light years away.

Scientists study these objects. 

You know that. If you didn't before, you know now. If you knew this before, then please retract your fallacious comment.

Jul 12, 2012 -- 4:51PM, rsielin wrote:

iama: Science does function, currently, but science CANNOT reach back into The Earth / The Universe history.

rsielin: The scientific method can be applied to all physical evidence whatsoever, and past events leave physical evidence. That physical evidence is unequivocal. The earth is ancient. The species evolved. Get over it.

iama:  Yes, certainly, I agree that "past events leave physical evidence." But, the problem is universal, that we only see the evidences which we are programmed to see.

For instance, I see vast evidences for The Flood, and you see NONE, because you have been brainwashed by secular geologists' uniformitarian speculations.

Your, above, statement is characteristic of a human being who has been educated to BELIEVE the speculation lies.  Simple as that!

I don't know what you consider The Bible to be, but your ToE die-hard speculations posing as facts tells me, that  you don't consider The Bible to be a factor for your belief-system.

It will take a miracle of God to open up your blinded eyes to see the light of The Creator-God of The Creation.

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Jul 12, 2012 -- 8:15PM, steven_guy wrote:

Science does function, currently, but science CANNOT reach back into The Earth / The Universe history.

steven_guy: It can and it does. What you said untrue. Why did you say it? Do you believe it or do you know that what you said is simply not true.

iama:  The Earth and The Universe had a beginning.  No human being was there "In the beginning God," so, how do you suppose that human beings / scientists can reach back into THAT The Earth / The Universe history?  "And God said, 'Let there be light, and there was light.'"  How do you suppose that human beings / scientists could possibly go back to that instance when "there was light" but there had, previously, been no light?  Yes, scientists can / could / do speculate in their attempts to solve that question regarding light / energy / electricity / atoms / protons / electrons / etc.  Do you really think that human beings, currently, can answer the HOW question regarding "all that in them is"?  I don't!

steven_guy: Go outside on a clear night. You can see objects that are greater than 6,000 light years away.

iama:  steven_guy, I, too, have spent countless hours outside on a clear night studying the stars and the constellations comprised of those stars.  What I know about the stars, SCIENTISTS have told us as a result of their investigations using human-made technologies.  Yes, I thank these scientists - those studying the only pure-science.

You are disadvantaged when  you look at those "objects that are greater than 6,000 light years away."  I can look at those same objects as you are looking at (although from the Northern Hemisphere) and I can believe that my Creator-God, Who is eternal, and Who created all that exists in The Universe, what we can see with our naked eyes, and what we can see via technologies, know that it is claimed that there are "objects at a greater distance than 6,000 light years away," and I can accept that and not be concerned that scientists are stymied by that conflicting data.  I believe that my Creator-God, Who created The Universe "In the beginning," could create The Universe with such great vastness, in order to demonstrate to human beings His power and Godhead.  I belive what The Bible states about my Creator-God, and I know that He is fully capable of doing what you consider to be impossible.  Being eternal, and being all-present, and being all-powerful, and being all-knowing, there can, certainly, exist objects in The Universe at greated light years away, but visible to human beings who have only been here for ~6,000 years.

steven_guy: Scientists study these objects.

iama: Yes, certainly, "scientists study these objects"!  But, scientists are not equivalent to our Creator-God, Who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present - even to the far reaches of The Universe, because He exists OUTSIDE OF The Creation / is separate FROM The Creation, but has chosen to incarnate INTO The Creation.  Scientists are but human beings, and falible.  Have you noticed how often space ventures cause scientists to revise their data?  Scientists aren't even positive about what the Red Shift means for some objects.

steven_guy: You know that. If you didn't before, you know now. If you knew this before, then please retract your fallacious comment.

iama:  How do you expect scientists to research The Universe from The Earth, when they have so many unanswered questions, and they can ONLY conduct their research FROM this Earth-platform?  How can they answer the Mars questions, truly, when they reject what can be observed on their own platform, Earth.

You cry false / "fallacious" when you refuse to believe The Truth.

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