Jul 4, 2012 -- 4:28PM, steven_guy wrote:

Everyone with any sense and honesty knows that the vast amount of scientific research and even vaster amounts of evidence and observation has established the very firm scientific credentials of evolution and the solid and uncontroversial theory of evolution that explains what we see in nature.

The only people who have any objection to evolution and the scientific theory of evolution are people with a dubious religious agenda. Even the passingly small number of "scientists" and more usually engineers who have objections to evolution, like the poor wretched Michael Behe, do so because their theology has them by the short and curlies.

 

Right. Anyone who has been acquainted with the facts and still objects to evolution should be considered either grossly dishonest or mentally impaired. It is not possible for an educated person to sincerely reject evolution and be in full possession of his or her mental faculties.

Jul 4, 2012 -- 7:20PM, McAtheist wrote:

McAtheist: I could respect someone who says they know that the evidence doesn't support their position but choose to stick with the Bible anyway --- I don't agree, but it is at least honest.

But for someone to repeatedly claim that evidence and science support their position when they don't and to then resort to magic to fix their "scientific mode" is just blatant dishonesty.  I see nothing to respect in that.

iama:  I thought, therefore, that you might appreciate the following article:

A Tale of Two Scientists: What Really Happened 'In the Beginning'

.

Iam,

I don't see what in your article was supposed to be of interest.  I searched further about baraminology and didn't find  the methods used to to form these classifications, especially for extinct groups.  Nor did I see any indication that YEC researchers are looking for the biological mechanisms that allowed the super-rapid diversification, reproduction and migration needed to fit your story into known historical parameters.  Also missing was the work that explains why all species descended from the ark kinds fail to show that genetic bottleneck and how a breeding population with 10 alleles per gene bootstrapped up to 1000+ alleles, especially since you very incorrectly claim mutations can't add information.

Unfortunately for any claim for the scientific nature of this work, I did find the following statement on CreationWiki: "Another example would be Canines, which is a holobaramin since wolves, coyotes, domesticated dogs and other canids are all descended from two individuals taken aboard Noah's ark, and there are no other creatures that are genetically continuous with them

That stuff in red is the conclusion they decided on before they ever started the study.   So what they are doing in the baramin lab is simply cherry-picking data that says what they need it to say so their pre-determined conclusion is never challenged. 

This isn't science; this is busy work. 

As I said earlier, using this method I can easily prove that all fundamental Christians are sexual predators; do you think that would be an honest representation/interpretation of the available data?

ken: There's no such thing as baraminology.

Well, there is something, it just doesn't seem to be scientific.  I don't know what to call it --- pseudo-scientific theology?

Jul 6, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Ken wrote:

Jul 6, 2012 -- 8:25PM, McAtheist wrote:

ken: There's no such thing as baraminology.

Well, there is something, it just doesn't seem to be scientific.  I don't know what to call it --- pseudo-scientific theology?

Too long. Think in terms of words of one syllable. A single four-letter word should do it.

"Crap"? "Shit"? "Pooh"?

I was going to say "balls", but that has five letters.