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Switch to Forum Live View How can Antarctica have dinosaur fossils?
2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 1:17AM #1
Blü
Posts: 24,653

Antarctica became a separate continent about 23 million years ago.  

It's been very largely covered with ice for the last 15 my.  Its ice cover has been roughly of its present extent for 6 my, and no evidence suggests afforestation in the last 2-3 my.

Ice cores going back 420,000 years have been extracted from Lake Vostok by Russian research teams.


Now don your YEC goggles and take it that Antarctica has only existed since 4004 BCE.

During that time it hasn't significantly moved, and its climate, vegetation and fauna haven't significantly changed - it is and always has been extremely inhospitable.

That makes it difficult to explain the presence of fossil plants from the Mezozoic (ended 250 mya); and as our Creo friends acknowledge, fossils of large Mesozoic dinies  have been found there.


Buddy Davis, who we're told is a popular lecturer to children, wrote that link.  Buddy thinks the fossils are deposited by the Genesis flood, and wonders if Antarctica were significantly closer to the equator in 2348 BCE, though he doesn't unambiguously assert it.

However Buddy's problem is rather more substantial than that -

(a) We know the rate of tectonic drift is 2-4 cm pa, meaning that Antarctica could have traveled about 260 yds / 240 meters max since creation in 4004 BCE.

(b) No evidence suggests any significant perturbation of that rate.

(c) We have no knowledge of any mechanism by which the rate could be appropriately accelerated even in principle, and

(d) Not even our friend 57 is keen on Wally Brown's fantasias any more, so we don't have to debunk notions like Antarctica skimming along at 45 mph from its former place in the sun.  (Even at that wonderful speed for a continent 40% larger than Australia, it'd take 15 hours for the nearest part to reach Tierra del Fuego.)

So Buddy's explanation fails, and the problem remains: how do we now explain dinies in Antarctica?

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 10:01AM #2
Midutch
Posts: 4,083

Well, according to that bright light of "creationist" thought, Kent Hovind, the Earth's poles weren't always under sheets of ice. According to Hovind a giant ice "meteor" broke up in the Earth's atmosphere at the same time of the Noachian flood. Inexplicably, the ice shards were somehow "magnetically" attracted mostly to the poles, "freezing the mammoths standing up" (I kid you not). Obviously, the ice also froze the dinos existing in Antarctica at the same time.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdEZTdOlGss


Why the Antarctic dinosaurs weren't frozen "standing up" like the mammoths were (and therby preserving massive volumes of organic dino tissue like we see with the mammoths) will never be explained since the "creationists" can't really be bothered with research or science.


It also doesn't explain why the penguins, other modern birds, sea lions, etc. living in Antarctica weren't frozen in place/fossilized next to the dinosaurs.

"creationism" ... 2000+ years worth of ABYSMAL FAILURE ... and proud of it.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 3:49PM #3
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,368

Jul 1, 2012 -- 1:17AM, Blü wrote:



Blu: Antarctica became a separate continent about 23 million years ago.  

It's been very largely covered with ice for the last 15 my.  Its ice cover has been roughly of its present extent for 6 my, and no evidence suggests afforestation in the last 2-3 my.

Ice cores going back 420,000 years have been extracted from Lake Vostok by Russian research teams.


Now don your YEC goggles and take it that Antarctica has only existed since 4004 BCE.

During that time it hasn't significantly moved, and its climate, vegetation and fauna haven't significantly changed - it is and always has been extremely inhospitable.

That makes it difficult to explain the presence of fossil plants from the Mezozoic (ended 250 mya); and as our Creo friends acknowledge, fossils of large Mesozoic dinies  have been found there.


Buddy Davis, who we're told is a popular lecturer to children, wrote that link.  Buddy thinks the fossils are deposited by the Genesis flood, and wonders if Antarctica were significantly closer to the equator in 2348 BCE, though he doesn't unambiguously assert it.

However Buddy's problem is rather more substantial than that -

(a) We know the rate of tectonic drift is 2-4 cm pa, meaning that Antarctica could have traveled about 260 yds / 240 meters max since creation in 4004 BCE.

(b) No evidence suggests any significant perturbation of that rate.

(c) We have no knowledge of any mechanism by which the rate could be appropriately accelerated even in principle, and

(d) Not even our friend 57 is keen on Wally Brown's fantasias any more, so we don't have to debunk notions like Antarctica skimming along at 45 mph from its former place in the sun.  (Even at that wonderful speed for a continent 40% larger than Australia, it'd take 15 hours for the nearest part to reach Tierra del Fuego.)

So Buddy's explanation fails, and the problem remains: how do we now explain dinies in Antarctica?



iama:  The Flood / tectonic activity of Noah's time:



The paradox of warm-climate vegetation in Antarctica



The Ice Age and Ancient Maps



New ice core records 120,000 years?



Catastrophic plate tectonics: the geophysical context of the Genesis Flood



Polar Dinosaur Conundrum



.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 4:04PM #4
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Jul 1, 2012 -- 3:49PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

The Flood / tectonic activity of Noah's time:


The paradox of warm-climate vegetation in Antarctica


The Ice Age and Ancient Maps


New ice core records 120,000 years?


Catastrophic plate tectonics: the geophysical context of the Genesis Flood


Polar Dinosaur Conundrum



Instead of posting a pile of links that nobody will read, why don't you just answer the question in your own words?

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 4:11PM #5
rsielin
Posts: 4,166

Jul 1, 2012 -- 3:49PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

The Flood / tectonic activity of Noah's time:


The paradox of warm-climate vegetation in Antarctica


The Ice Age and Ancient Maps


New ice core records 120,000 years?


Catastrophic plate tectonics: the geophysical context of the Genesis Flood


Polar Dinosaur Conundrum



instead of linking to made up stories and pseudo science from your site that publicly promises to lie, why not try finding some actual empirical evidence as support sometime? That's how real scientists do it, why can't you?


Do you really think creation.com has real practicing scientists writing their stories? You sure are gullible if you think so. If you were to know the truth, they are the laughingstock of creationism. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 6:37PM #6
steven_guy
Posts: 11,739

Jul 1, 2012 -- 3:49PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


The paradox of warm-climate vegetation in Antarctica


The Ice Age and Ancient Maps


new ice core records 120,000 years?


Catastrophic plate tectonics: the geophysical context of the Genesis Flood


Polar Dinosaur Conundrum




If these links aren't to genuine scientific websites run by organisations with scientific credentials, honesty, integrity and tranparency, then they're worthless. If they are links to the usual slimy set of depraved and degenerate Creationist websites then they're actually going to damage your case.


How about responding in your own words?

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 8:54PM #7
Blü
Posts: 24,653

Midutch

Dear old Kent, Patron Creo of Jailbirds and Tax Cheats, won't be at large again till 2017.


But then (unless his parole terms forbid it) he'll doubtless explain why the poles didn't freeze by themselves instead of waiting for his meteorite. 


420,000 years of ice cores rather shake his story, but facts have never stopped him.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 8:56PM #8
Blü
Posts: 24,653

iama

In those articles you linked, why is no scienitific evidence offered in support of the claims made?

Don't creos care what's true in reality? 


Is it all about making up stories to support other stories?


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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 8:58PM #9
steven_guy
Posts: 11,739

Jul 1, 2012 -- 8:54PM, Blü wrote:


Midutch

Dear old Kent, Patron Creo of Jailbirds and Tax Cheats, won't be at large again till 2017.


But then (unless his parole terms forbid it) he'll doubtless explain why the poles didn't freeze by themselves instead of waiting for his meteorite. 


420,000 years of ice cores rather shake his story, but facts have never stopped him.




At least the law has. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2012 - 9:38PM #10
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,368

Jul 1, 2012 -- 8:56PM, Blü wrote:



Blu: iama,

In those articles you linked, why is no scienitific evidence offered in support of the claims made?

Don't creos care what's true in reality? 


Is it all about making up stories to support other stories?



iama:  Did you read the articles?  Did you examine the references to which the scientists referred?  Did you understand the equations which were presented and explained? Did you understand the scientific basis of the computer simulation data which resulted from the input of the secular scientists data?


Beyond what is available, scientifically, as with evolution-presuppositioned-scientists, based upon the scientific data which has been, historically, collected, we must identify historical science's attempts at understanding what took place at the time of The Flood as speculation.


As you stated in your OP, no one knows the answer, we can only speculate based upon the current data which is available to us.  Again, no human being was privy to the "great power and Godhead" methods which were built into The Earth / The Universe "In the beginning God..." such that The Flood conditions would be available at the right time, for the right purposes.


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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