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Switch to Forum Live View Creationists: Why are apes so similar to humans?
5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2012 - 8:16PM #41
iamachildofhis
Posts: 11,927

Jun 26, 2012 -- 6:01PM, d_p_m wrote:



wohali: The fact that humans socially are very much like chimps and bonobos is another problem for creationists.


iama: The fact that humans, spiritually, have no identity with chimps and bonobos is another problem for evolutionists.


d_p_m: Are you really trying to tell us you are unaware of the spiritual links between humans and other animals? Really?


There are some good books that can help you gain spiritual sensitivity and awareness.


iama: What are you referring to as "spiritual"?


d_p_m: In this case, I am referring to the awareness that all life on this planet is related; that we are all part of one genetic metafamily; and that in some very real phiolosphical sense all the other animals and the plants and forms of life on the planet are brothers and sisters, and cousins to us.



iama:  Biblically, "spiritual" refers to the relationship of human beings to the realm of the Spirit Who created us.  As eternal beings, we were created to be in relationship with our Creator-God and to eventually dwell in another realm, which is the realm of the spirit.  That is why human beings are not animals, but human beings who were given not just DNA life, but soul life and spirit life.  Animals were only given DNA life and soul life.


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http://creation.com/creation-tv?fileID=N0RDR6y_QBc

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2012 - 10:07PM #42
MMarcoe
Posts: 20,907

Jun 26, 2012 -- 8:10PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  Yes, animals don't have the capacity to believe in anything.  Animals live by instincts which are built into their entities. 





Wrong. Animals have been shown to use thinking, planning, and other higher-order functions. They are not the brutes you think they are.


Some primatologists have noted that some apes appear to engage in spiritual experiences of some sort. Jane Goodall described a few of them. You need to rethink your understanding of animal spirituality.


 

1. Extremists think that thinking means agreeing with them.
2. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.
3. God is the original nothingness of the universe.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2012 - 11:03PM #43
Abner1
Posts: 6,624

MMarcoe wrote:


> Wrong. Animals have been shown to use thinking, planning, and other


> higher-order functions. They are not the brutes you think they are.


> Some primatologists have noted that some apes appear to engage in spiritual


> experiences of some sort.


Not the way Iama defines spirituality.  Look more carefully at her definition:


iama:


>> Biblically, "spiritual" refers to the relationship of human beings to the realm


>> of the Spirit Who created us. 


In Iama's view only fundamentalist Christians have a relationship with her God, and spirituality refers to a relationship with her God.  In other words, only fundamentalist Christians can be spiritual in the Iamaverse.


If we apply that to animals, animals cannot be spiritual by definition since they are not fundamentalist Christians.  Of course, neither can humans who are Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, or even liberal Christians.  We're all spiritually dead.  Only Iama and her brethren have any spirituality by her definition.


Of course the rest of us have no reason to accept her rather non-standard definition, but it's important to note that this is yet another term that Iama has attempted to redefine in order to make herself correct by definition.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 2:02AM #44
Ed_3
Posts: 500

Jun 26, 2012 -- 7:31PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama: So, "Why Are Apes So Similar to Humans?"


It could be that our Creator-God, specifically, recorded how Adam was created, and how Eve was created, so that the evolution paradigm could be falsified, biblically.  Even though the land animals and human beings were created on Day 6, our Creator-God wanted all human beings, both evolutionists and creationists to know / understand that human beings are NOT "but animals."


According to Genesis 2, Adam, certainly, knew that he was NOT "but an animal," because there was no female mate for him from among the animal life-forms.




So I guess God wanted to throw a little confusion in there by creating an animal that was very similar to human beings so that if one day people would say that they were related, He would have Genesis chapter 2 to prove that the similarity didn't mean that they were related. ...I think I got it. Surprised

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 6:22AM #45
steven_guy
Posts: 11,879

Jun 26, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Ed_3 wrote:


Jun 26, 2012 -- 4:34AM, steven_guy wrote:


The answer to the question posed in this thread is simple. Humans are apes.



Also, here's an interesting answer.




Humans are apes - members of the family of species that comprises the great apes. That is interesting.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 9:30AM #46
McAtheist
Posts: 9,224

iama:  You have misunderstood my point.  Only human beings of all of the created life-forms, are spiritual beings - beings who worship - beings who believe - beings who build images to worship - beings who believe in gods - beings who create myths - etc. It is only human beings, of all of the life-forms, who worship animal forms.  My point was that only human beings of all of the created life-forms, worship, period.  Human beings and animals don't enjoy the fellowship of TOGETHER worshiping the same Creator-God.


No, you misunderstood mine. 


Many forms of paganism and shamanism teach that animals have spirits, souls;  additionally, practitioners of these faiths often encounter such animal souls in their  spiritual journeys.  Unless you can somehow disprove their experiences, then we have to accept that animals have souls that may be in some ways and some instances more advanced than humans (hence the notion of such animals as spiritual guides) just as we are supposed to accept the unevidenced notion from your faith that humans have souls.  Again, sauce, goose, gander.


More, unless you have some amazing ESP abilities that you have hiding all these years, you have no idea whatsoever what the relationship between god and animals is.  You are welcome to express your faith-based opinion on the god-animal interface, but your faith is only one of many and your opinion is just that.


Finally, the notion that god made the rest of the apes so very similar to humans so Adam would be more appreciative of Eve says very unflattering things about Adam and very nasty things about god; "lame" doesn't begin to describe it.  

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 11:10AM #47
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Jun 26, 2012 -- 8:16PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  Biblically, "spiritual" refers to




What the bible refers to is ONLY relevant to those who care what the bible says, generally members of the Abrahamic religion (Judaism+Christianity+Islam), and they cannot often agree among themselves what it is, says, or means.


I really don't care what the bible says. It is both meaningless and irrelevant to me. I have experienced many spiritual relationships, and experiences, and none of them had to do with the bible, or the things described in it.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 11:13AM #48
d_p_m
Posts: 11,236

Jun 26, 2012 -- 8:10PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Angels fly.




So do pixies, Sanata's reindeer, the Tooth Fairy, and Tinkerbell.


There is no particular reason to prefer your myths to any others.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."
― Niels Bohr

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein

"If one is going to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a bit of social awkwardness."
-- Penny Dreadful, season one, episode two
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 11:55AM #49
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Some religious folks like Iama set exclusivity as one of their tennants.


Ubnderstanding/emotions is exclusive to humans.


Humanity is exclusive to certain colors of people.


"Salvation" is exclusive to those who worship a certain way.


All bunk.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 11:59AM #50
wohali
Posts: 10,227

D_P_M, don't forget:


Djinn, most dragons, gryphons, some carpets, harpies, Mothra, Rodan, also all fly in mythology.


Angels sure don't have an exclusive.

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