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Switch to Forum Live View New dates for old cave art
2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 3:17PM #1
d_p_m
Posts: 9,783
Cave art in Spain has been dated to 40,800 years ago, making it about 10,000 years older than the previously dated oldest European art.

Due to the dating, it is not clear whether this art was done by modern humans (Homo sapiens sapiens) or Neanderthals (Neanderthals are classified alternatively as a subspecies of Homo sapiens (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) or as a separate human species (Homo neanderthalensis) - wikipedia).

Due to the nature of the art, it seems clear that this cave has not been under water at any time in the last 40,000 years, invalidating any claim that there was a global flood in human times.

For more details see:

www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/06...
"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr


“Extinguished theologians lie about the cradle of every science as the strangled snakes beside that of Hercules; and history records that whenever science and orthodoxy have been fairly opposed, the latter has been forced to retire from the lists, bleeding and crushed if not annihilated; scotched, if not slain.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley, Lay Sermons, Addresses, and Reviews


“The science, the art, the jurisprudence, the chief political and social theories, of the modern world have grown out of Greece and Rome—not by favour of, but in the teeth of, the fundamental teachings of early Christianity, to which science, art, and any serious occupation with the things of this world were alike despicable.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley, Agnosticism and Christianity and Other Essays
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 10:12PM #2
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,093

The dating must be wrong. Satan must have messed with it somehow, in order to lead us away from the Bible.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 11:17PM #3
Blü
Posts: 24,830

No no - the caves were formed by the Flood.


You can tell they're Flood caves - they have old paintings on the walls.


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 7:01AM #4
Sparky_Spotty
Posts: 761

Those are T-rex hands.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 3:41PM #5
ozero
Posts: 1,411

Thanks for that article, DPM.  I visited the El Castillo cave about 20 years ago.  Drove several miles on "muy peligro" road to get there.  Honked the horn and walked up a steep hill to the gate and waited with about a dozen other folks for a caretaker to open the gate.  Magnificent view of the valley from there. As far as I know it was the only such cave open to the public anywhere with "art" that old in Europe. There was no art visible at that time, but the hand prints were everywhere.  Small hand prints that I thought were children's, but could also be Neanderthals.  I was fascinated by the cave and bought several books about it (At bookstore near Altamira, no souvenir shops at El Castillo).  At that time there was a dig taking place there, but none of my sources indicated a date at that time.  What really surprised me was that my grandchildren made the same kind of hand prints on my daughter's house using muddy hands.  They put dozens of such prints on the white house.  They weren't told to do (or not do, it washed off easily) this.  It's just something that kids do.  Interesting that there was no mention in the article of the archeology done in that cave.  They had dug a hole at least 20 feet below the level of hand prints.  Maybe nothing came of it.  No sign of a flood there, not that I looked real hard.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 12:07AM #6
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,520

Jun 16, 2012 -- 3:41PM, ozero wrote:



ozero: Thanks for that article, DPM.  I visited the El Castillo cave about 20 years ago.  Drove several miles on "muy peligro" road to get there.  Honked the horn and walked up a steep hill to the gate and waited with about a dozen other folks for a caretaker to open the gate.  Magnificent view of the valley from there. As far as I know it was the only such cave open to the public anywhere with "art" that old in Europe. There was no art visible at that time, but the hand prints were everywhere.  Small hand prints that I thought were children's, but could also be Neanderthals.  I was fascinated by the cave and bought several books about it (At bookstore near Altamira, no souvenir shops at El Castillo).  At that time there was a dig taking place there, but none of my sources indicated a date at that time.  What really surprised me was that my grandchildren made the same kind of hand prints on my daughter's house using muddy hands.  They put dozens of such prints on the white house.  They weren't told to do (or not do, it washed off easily) this.  It's just something that kids do.  Interesting that there was no mention in the article of the archeology done in that cave.  They had dug a hole at least 20 feet below the level of hand prints.  Maybe nothing came of it.  No sign of a flood there, not that I looked real hard.



iama: What do you consider would be signs of The Flood?


What do you consider carved out the caves?


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2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 12:36AM #7
steven_guy
Posts: 11,740

Jun 17, 2012 -- 12:07AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


What do you consider would be signs of The Flood?


What do you consider carved out the caves?




There never was a global flood. Certainly no scientist thinks so. (Creation scientists aren't scientists, they're merely charlatans)

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 12:48AM #8
d_p_m
Posts: 9,783

Jun 17, 2012 -- 12:07AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


What do you consider would be signs of The Flood?




Well, washing the 40,000 year old ochre powder off the wall would be a start.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr


“Extinguished theologians lie about the cradle of every science as the strangled snakes beside that of Hercules; and history records that whenever science and orthodoxy have been fairly opposed, the latter has been forced to retire from the lists, bleeding and crushed if not annihilated; scotched, if not slain.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley, Lay Sermons, Addresses, and Reviews


“The science, the art, the jurisprudence, the chief political and social theories, of the modern world have grown out of Greece and Rome—not by favour of, but in the teeth of, the fundamental teachings of early Christianity, to which science, art, and any serious occupation with the things of this world were alike despicable.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley, Agnosticism and Christianity and Other Essays
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 1:04AM #9
McAtheist
Posts: 8,055

Iam,


When does the YEC model claim these rock paintings were done?


What actual scientific dating techniques support that date?


What peer-reviewed (as opposed to pastor blessed) articles detail the scientific research that was performed by YECs ?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 9:06AM #10
Midutch
Posts: 4,164

Jun 17, 2012 -- 12:48AM, d_p_m wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 12:07AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


What do you consider would be signs of The Flood?




Well, washing the 40,000 year old ochre powder off the wall would be a start.



Yes, but it's special water-proof ochre powder capable of withstanding 10 BILLION hydrogen bombs all going off at once.

"creationism" ... 2000+ years worth of ABYSMAL FAILURE ... and proud of it.
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