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Switch to Forum Live View Beating a dead horse: mutations don't add up!
2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 2:34PM #1
McAtheist
Posts: 7,583
A constantly recurring YEC argument is that "mutations don't add up", a vague claim that evolution is insufficient to explain some undisclosed trait or set of traits.

And yet, in all the time that I have been posting here, no YEC has ever managed to produce the actual data upon which that claim is based.  The YEC team has been asked repeatedly to give one single example complete with data that supports the claim that "mutations don't add up"  and the YEC team has repeatedly failed.

Given that the majority of biologists (people who are actually trained in this field !)  maintain that evolution is sufficient to explain the development of life on Earth, I think it's long past time for the YEC team to produce the evidential basis for their amateur claim to the contrary.

So YECs, let's see your math and science --- let's see the actual numbers from a real world example where evolution could not produce a trait or set of traits.

If the YEC team can not produce a real world example, then let's all agree that this is nothing more than the amateur opinion of a group of people with an emotional vested interest in discrediting science and that this opinion is of no use or interest to a discussion of real evolution.
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2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 4:57PM #2
EarthScientist
Posts: 3,419

In addition, certain poster(s) demand a beneficial mutation rate or percentage (as if it's a static number and not environment/selection dependent). When those certain poster(s) are asked what their model is for the number, what dimensional units it should be in, and whether it's a published model, one gets...nothing.



I predict this post will be unanswered even though the thread will be responded to by a certain poster(s).

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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 12:50PM #3
wohali
Posts: 10,227

If you are really lucky you will get another poster asking what your motivation is for posting factual stuff.

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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 3:03PM #4
d_p_m
Posts: 9,013

May 13, 2012 -- 4:57PM, EarthScientist wrote:


In addition, certain poster(s) demand a beneficial mutation rate or percentage (as if it's a static number and not environment/selection dependent). When those certain poster(s) are asked what their model is for the number, what dimensional units it should be in, and whether it's a published model, one gets...nothing.




Oh it gets more blatant than that.


They insist on the exact rate, and after having it explained time and time again that it is circumstantial, not absolute, and then go on about how it's too low, so terribly tiny... until you point them at an experiment with an observed 16% beneficial mutation rate - at which point they suddenly change their tune, and say it didn't count, and was only that high because of 'harsh circumstances'.


Way to come down on both sides of the fence, guys.




PHARAOH IRY-HOR, FROM THE 3100s BC, IS THE FIRST HUMAN WHOSE NAME WE KNOW.

-- cool facts from xkcd


"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 10:31AM #5
57
Posts: 20,518

If mutations do indeed add up....link us to a web site that shows us how. 


The web site must be clear and on a level a high school kid can understand....after all they are the one's who are being force fed this evo-minded false science.  


Currently the sysyem of eolutionism is based upon faith.  I know this because no one here has been able to provide a consice model that shows evolutionism in action.  All I have seen is a bunch of little snippets strung together and presented as some sort of mumbo-jumbo evidence.  


Point us to the link.....If not, then you must retract.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 10:37AM #6
d_p_m
Posts: 9,013

May 15, 2012 -- 10:31AM, 57 wrote:


If mutations do indeed add up....link us to a web site that shows us how. 


The web site must be clear and on a level a high school kid can understand....after all they are the one's who are being force fed this evo-minded false science.  


Currently the sysyem of eolutionism is based upon faith.  I know this because no one here has been able to provide a consice model that shows evolutionism in action.  All I have seen is a bunch of little snippets strung together and presented as some sort of mumbo-jumbo evidence.  


Point us to the link.....If not, then you must retract.  




Your failure to understand the science in no way reflects poorly on the science proving evolution.

PHARAOH IRY-HOR, FROM THE 3100s BC, IS THE FIRST HUMAN WHOSE NAME WE KNOW.

-- cool facts from xkcd


"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 11:20AM #7
McAtheist
Posts: 7,583

57: Point us to the link.....If not, then you must retract.


You need to re-read the opening post again, old boy.


My claim is that you can not produce a single real-world example of a trait or suite of traits that evolution is insufficient to explain.  You would need to have the numbers and data in hand to be able to demonstrate that lack.


If you can provide such an example, then I have to retract my claim.  But we both know that this particular YEC bumper sticker isn't based on data or evidence or science --- it's just more YEC gibberish.  Just ask all the trained people that work in this field, Christian and not.


So, while I will never have to retract this claim, you really should be retracting your claim about "mutations not adding up" since you can't provide one iota of evidence to support it.


Cool

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 1:28PM #8
amcolph
Posts: 16,252

May 15, 2012 -- 10:31AM, 57 wrote:


If mutations do indeed add up....link us to a web site that shows us how. 


The web site must be clear and on a level a high school kid can understand....after all they are the one's who are being force fed this evo-minded false science.  


 




And when we do that you complain that we are giving you the "cartoon" version and feel insulted.

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 1:45PM #9
57
Posts: 20,518

GEE..no web site yet? 


i wonder why.

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2 years ago  ::  May 15, 2012 - 1:49PM #10
amcolph
Posts: 16,252

May 15, 2012 -- 1:45PM, 57 wrote:


GEE..no web site yet? 


i wonder why.




It's hard to find one that is dumbed down enough for you, without being childish.




 

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