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2 years ago  ::  May 07, 2012 - 10:08PM #31
HouseofDavid
Posts: 591

May 5, 2012 -- 1:59PM, 57 wrote:

From what I hear in the Grand Canyon there is an approximately 7 foot thick layer of limestone that runs  the 277 miles of the Grand Canyon that covers many hundreds of square miles which contains on average one nautiloid fossil per square meter.

Many of these nautiloid fossil are as big or bigger than a man's arm.  

I am told that 15% of these nautiloids were killed and then fossilized standing on their heads.

Vertically.

It's quite obvious this provides indisputable proof of the extremely rapid formation of a significant layer of limestone near the bottom of the canyon......and not a long period of time slowly depositing the limestone.


The observation is insignificant.   It could just as easily mean that the water was very still for a long period of time, allowing the disc-shaped critter to remain upright.   What do you make of the 85% that were fossilized in a non-vertical orientation ?   A much better "proof" would be to show that all of the layers of the GC that YECs claim were deposited in Noah's Flood (some pick just those above the Great Uncomformity) are all of about the same radiometric age (they are not).   You can't even show that the heaviest and coarsest sediment was deposited first (gravel, sand), followed by lighter particles (silt, clay).  Then there's the problem of limestones composed mainly of plankton-sized organisms that would be choked by all that roiling turbid water.   Then there's the problem of those ~3 million year old lava flows into the canyon that cover the sedimentary rocks.  Then there's the problem of......  you get the idea.     There was no global flood.  Why you need that flood story to assure your salvation in Jesus is beyond me.

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2 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 8:28AM #32
Midutch
Posts: 3,584

May 7, 2012 -- 10:08PM, HouseofDavid wrote:

Why you need that flood story to assure your salvation in Jesus is beyond me.


Because to "fundamentalist christian creationists" their salvation is dependent, not upon Jesus, but upon the Bible being "literally and inerrantly true".


They reason that since Jesus is part of the Bible, and the only source where any "evidence" of him can be found, then if the first man was NOT poofed into existence out of a pile of dirt, if snakes do NOT talk, if a global flood did NOT kill everything on Earth except the passengers on Noah's barge, then Jesus, and their salvation in him, was/is not real.


For some reason they can't seem to grasp the idea that elephants are real (and the metaphorical lessons about not sticking your nose where it doesn't belong are true) ... even if the fairy tales about how elephants got their long noses are not. IOW where the Bible is concerned, they don't even have the reasoning skills of a mature 5 year old.


On occasion, the honest "fundamentalist christian creationist" (of which there seem to be very few) will actually admit this with statements/questions (usually directed at fellow Christians) such as "well, if the Bible is wrong about the original sin in the Garden of Evil, why would Jesus need to die for your sins". In essence this is an admission that salvation is NOT dependent upon Jesus dying for our sins, but on the story of the naked chick being tempted by the talking snake in the Garden of Eden fairy tale, as written down in the first chapter of the Bible.

"creationism" ... 2000+ years worth of ABYSMAL FAILURE ... and proud of it.
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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 1:45AM #33
Slipnish
Posts: 3,869

May 5, 2012 -- 3:47PM, 57 wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 3:40PM, MMarcoe wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 3:28PM, 57 wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 3:15PM, MMarcoe wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 3:10PM, 57 wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 2:39PM, MMarcoe wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 2:32PM, 57 wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 2:28PM, Midutch wrote:


May 5, 2012 -- 1:59PM, 57 wrote:

From what I hear in the Grand Canyon there is an approximately 7 foot thick layer of limestone that runs  the 277 miles of the Grand Canyon that covers many hundreds of square miles which contains on average one nautiloid fossil per square meter.

Many of these nautiloid fossil are as big or bigger than a man's arm.  

I am told that 15% of these nautiloids were killed and then fossilized standing on their heads.

Vertically.

It's quite obvious this provides indisputable proof of the extremely rapid formation of a significant layer of limestone near the bottom of the canyon......and not a long period of time slowly depositing the limestone.


Any rabbits in that layer? How about dinosaur fossils? Any large pleistocene mammals? How about any of Noah's neighbors? Or icthyosaurs or porpoises? Any modern fish?




Such a strawman argument. 


I didn't know rabbits and nautiloids lived together.  Of course you would expect them ne next to each other. Yes?





In a worldwide flood like the one you believe in, rabbits and nautiloids need not live together, but they would have died together in several places. All kinds of things that didn't live together would have died together. That's what a global flood would do to them.




As my post clearly indicates...the strata of the earth was deposited quickly during the flood of Noah.  Each layer represents a different biome containing the fauna that was present and survived the fossil making process. 





Your post didn't connect the Grand Canyon to Noah's flood. That was something you speculated.


You need to show that the rapid burial in the Grand Canyon came from Noah's flood. So how are you going to do that?


 




The horizontal stratas inand around  the grand canyon was deposited by the flood.  Considering the Redwall Limestone are part of those strata...it's a no-brainer correctly saying the Redwall limestone was deposited during the flood. 





Let me be clearer. How do you know it was Noah's flood and not some other flood?


 




At least you appear to be understanding a flood was required.





Uh-huh...because the bible is literal and inerrant, right?




I don't believe it. Prove it to me and I still won't believe it.

~Any Creationist~
(But honestly Douglas Adams)

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
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