May 3, 2012 -- 8:08PM, rsielin wrote:

All those who have NOT succumbed to that intellectually fatal first falsehood – namely that all of Christian scripture is complete literal fact from cover to cover – are free to examine the evidence and follow wherever it leads, unencumbered by any intellectually paralyzing bias. They can even change positions as new evidence is found, presented and confirmed that may lead in a promising direction. Nothing set in concrete here. No position is forced but depends solely on the strength and implications of the evidence.

It’s such a joy to embrace the academic world of ideas and explorations competing for the grail of knowledge, piece by piece. Pure intellectual freedom.

OTOH, creationists wear an intellectual straight jacket. There is no freedom to explore, all energies go into a circle-the-wagons mentality to defend and protect the lie of the first falsehood.  Rather than be immersed in the joy of pure discovery they are terrified for the next knowledge shoe to drop.

Nested hierarchies, radiometric dating, new fossils, genome sequencing data, hubble space telescope, large hadron collider; each and everyone are devastating threats rather than opportunities for intellectual growth. Pure intellectual hell. 

You do what you want, but I'll choose intellectual freedom everytime. The rewards are too great to pass up.

I'm fascinated by nested hierarchies, radiometric dating, new fossils, genome sequencing data, the hubble space telescope, the large hadron collider, and many other scientific subjects. All are good things and all have provided relevant important information on human origins, the history of the universe, and the nature of matter.

Now, why exactly am I supposed to feel so "devastatingly threatened" by them? I don’t--I love that stuff! In fact, I have a degree in science.

I also love Jesus, Christian theology, theistic philosophy, and--of course--The Holy Bible. 

So what are you going to do about it?  Tell me I cant believe those things? Tell me that I'm not allowed into your "smart people only" club?  And you talk of 'intellectual freedom?' 

What a joke!

May 6, 2012 -- 3:22AM, CaliberCadillac wrote:

Now, why exactly am I supposed to feel so "devastatingly threatened" by them? I don’t--I love that stuff! In fact, I have a degree in science. 

I also love Jesus, Christian theology, theistic philosophy, and--of course--The Holy Bible. 

So what are you going to do about it?  Tell me I cant believe those things? Tell me that I'm not allowed into your "smart people only" club?  And you talk of 'intellectual freedom?' 

You're mistaken; of course you can love and believe whatever you want.

But even for scientists such as you - and you of all people should know this - it's that when you are doing real science, you really do have to get your science right or you fail; flunked your science, so to speak. Honestly, it's as simple as that.

And we all know, real science done correctly, is devastating for the creationism expressed by all our YEC friends here.  They've succumbed to that intellectually fatal first falsehood – namely that all of Christian scripture is complete literal science fact from cover to cover; a strait jacket with zero degrees of intellectual freedom. 

Again I choose intellectual freedom. You can too.

Question for Caliber.  

Since you're a real scientist and a creationist, are you producing any original research supporting Genesis science? Have you any new evidence that would support the recent but thoroughly refuted by real scientists RATE study?

If you have, what peer reviewed science journals have you published in? I am very interessted in your work. 

May 6, 2012 -- 10:00AM, Ken wrote:

Is he a creationist?

Maybe, maybe not. His profile says, "I am throughly convinced of the Infallibility of Gods Word". As for being a real scientist, I was giving him the benefit of doubt. He was using his degree as a credential. 

If he's not engaged in active research in science, then he really doesn't have much of a credible leg to stand on to challenge the current science on "nested hierarchies, radiometric dating, new fossils, genome sequencing data, the hubble space telescope, the large hadron collider, and many other scientific subjects". And the current science on those IS devastating to creation science, the very point he was challenging. 

The entire "Creation-ism" Enterprise is like The Old Model Aristotelian Solar System ... You CAN "make it work" -- but only with enough ad hoc Circles-within-Circles-within-Circles ...

May 3, 2012 -- 8:08PM, rsielin wrote:

All those who have NOT succumbed to that intellectually fatal first falsehood – namely that all of Christian scripture is complete literal fact from cover to cover – are free to examine the evidence and follow wherever it leads, unencumbered by any intellectually paralyzing bias. They can even change positions as new evidence is found, presented and confirmed that may lead in a promising direction. Nothing set in concrete here. No position is forced but depends solely on the strength and implications of the evidence.

It’s such a joy to embrace the academic world of ideas and explorations competing for the grail of knowledge, piece by piece. Pure intellectual freedom.

OTOH, creationists wear an intellectual straight jacket. There is no freedom to explore, all energies go into a circle-the-wagons mentality to defend and protect the lie of the first falsehood.  Rather than be immersed in the joy of pure discovery they are terrified for the next knowledge shoe to drop.

Nested hierarchies, radiometric dating, new fossils, genome sequencing data, hubble space telescope, large hadron collider; each and everyone are devastating threats rather than opportunities for intellectual growth. Pure intellectual hell. 

You do what you want, but I'll choose intellectual freedom everytime. The rewards are too great to pass up.