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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:29PM #51
steven_guy
Posts: 11,751

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:24PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 2:41PM, lucaspa wrote:



steven_guy: Yes, I guessed as much. The idea that God created the light already en route to us from a universe that was deliberately made to look more than 13 billion years old is a real problem for Creationists. It suggests that the earth is at the centre of the universe and that all of creation is one gigantic con-job.



iama: When you read Genesis 1 you understand that our Creator-God created all things completely / whole / mature / etc.



When I bother to read Genesis, and I haven't in a long time, I realise that I'm confronted with a very ancient myth written by ignorant barbarians and that none of it is true.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:31PM #52
steven_guy
Posts: 11,751

Why not explain how the universe can by 6,000 years old when clearly, to any sensible person, it isn't?

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:29PM
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:37PM #53
McAtheist
Posts: 8,365

iama: You are one of those who understand that the biblical God / our Creator-God, is too small / not powerful enough / etc.!


No, lucuspa didn't deny that god would be powerful enough to create the universe with the appearance of great age; they simply correctly pointed out that such an action makes that god dishonest. You need to read what people actually post instead of what you wish they would post so it's easier to debate them.


And the rest of lucaspa's insightful post follows quite logically from that original point: if the YEC god lies about one thing (as it must to create a universe with the deceptive appearance of great age), then a person can never know what other lies that god tell.  


In fact, if you can accept that god lied to make a 6K universe look 13 billion years old, then you have to accept the possibility that god lied to make a 15 second universe look 13 billion years old; how do you know that the deceitful god of YECism didn't create everything including you 15 seconds ago, with all the false memories,etc. to complete a "mature" world?


It is obvious that YECism makes for very bad science; lucaspa's post makes it clear that YECism also makes for very bad Christian theology.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 5:20PM #54
d_p_m
Posts: 10,281

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:24PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama: When you read Genesis 1 you understand




Been there, done that, found the primitive pre-scientific tribal myths.


I suspect I have a rather clearer view of Genesis 1 than you do.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:13PM #55
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,854

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:31PM, steven_guy wrote:



Why not explain how the universe can by 6,000 years old when clearly, to any sensible person, it isn't?



iama:  Our Creator-God's "great power and Godhead" are able to create The Universe / The Earth and "all that in them is."


Claiming that our Creator-God doesn't exist, causes all non-believers to speculate long-ages and "goo to zoo to you."


The Supernatural is more than able.


The natural is His creation!


.

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:29PM
The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:29PM #56
wohali
Posts: 10,227

"Claiming that our Creator-God doesn't exist, causes all non-believers to speculate long-ages and "goo to zoo to you.""


No.


Examining the evidence that is all around us causes thinking people of every stripe to understand that the Earth is very old.


Unfortunately, enough evidence can ever be found to convince some people who pervert a spiritual book so that they may worship it.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:36PM #57
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 23, 2012 -- 8:13PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:31PM, steven_guy wrote:

Rather than proselytising, Iamachildofhis, why not explain how the universe can by 6,000 years old when clearly, to any sensible person, it isn't?



Our Creator-God's "great power and Godhead" are able to create The Universe / The Earth and "all that in them is."


Claiming that our Creator-God doesn't exist, causes all non-believers to speculate long-ages and "goo to zoo to you."



It appears that the history of science is something else creationists know nothing about. Are creationists knowledgeable in any field?

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:26PM
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:36PM #58
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,854

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:37PM, McAtheist wrote:



iama: You are one of those who understand that the biblical God / our Creator-God, is too small / not powerful enough / etc.!


McAtheist: No, lucuspa didn't deny that god would be powerful enough to create the universe with the appearance of great age; they simply correctly pointed out that such an action makes that god dishonest. You need to read what people actually post instead of what you wish they would post so it's easier to debate them.


And the rest of lucaspa's insightful post follows quite logically from that original point: if the YEC god lies about one thing (as it must to create a universe with the deceptive appearance of great age), then a person can never know what other lies that god tell.  


In fact, if you can accept that god lied to make a 6K universe look 13 billion years old, then you have to accept the possibility that god lied to make a 15 second universe look 13 billion years old; how do you know that the deceitful god of YECism didn't create everything including you 15 seconds ago, with all the false memories,etc. to complete a "mature" world?


It is obvious that YECism makes for very bad science; lucaspa's post makes it clear that YECism also makes for very bad Christian theology.



iama: It is the evolution speculation which is The Lie!


Anyone holding to the evolution speculation - The Lie, is calling our Creator-God a liar!


The ravages of The Flood taking place during the one year + period, and the subsequent Ice Age, accomplished all of the topography and tectonic features of The Earth as it is today.  There has been very little erosion since The Flood, compared to the erosion, deposition and subsequent sculpting of the sedimentary layers into the Earth's topography as it appears, today!


It all depends upon our worldview, whether we are forced to call our Creator-God a liar, or not!


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:40PM #59
d_p_m
Posts: 10,281

Apr 23, 2012 -- 8:36PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Anyone holding to the evolution speculation - The Lie, is calling our Creator-God a liar!




Well, duh! Almost right. It's creationists who are calling God a liar.


The only way YECism could be true is if the God or Gods in charge here are liars.


All the evidence proves that it is false, so unless 'God' faked it all to fool everyone, then YECism must be false.


If YECism is true, then God must be a liar.



Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:25PM
"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

-- Albert Einstein
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 8:40PM #60
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 23, 2012 -- 8:36PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

It is the evolution speculation which is The Lie!


No, it's a wicked and heretical novelty cult. It's as dead to truth as it is to decency.


Anyone holding to the evolution speculation - The Lie, is calling our Creator-God a liar!


It is hardly possible to call him a liar when he hasn't said anything at all about the topic.

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:24PM
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