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Switch to Forum Live View The first falsehood
2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 11:12AM #31
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 15, 2012 -- 11:35AM, rsielin wrote:


Once you fall hook line and sinker for the falsehood that the Bible and all its scripture is inerrant and literal truth, you are forced into a life time of lies, distortions and misrepresentations.


Thus for creationism, it all begins with swallowing and then believing that first lie, and nothing can break those brainwashed shackles thereafter. They're doomed to a life of lies, misrepresentation, dishonesty and fakery for the remaining of their natural lives. 



As a Christian, I would agree.  The reason is that making the Bible "inerrant and literal truth" and the "Word of God" is bilioloatry.  In theological terms, it is worshipping a false idol.  So yes, once you start with that one lie, there are going to be others. 


"One of the fundamental principles of Christianity is that nothing is sacred. No thing. No part of creation is God. God is separate from the creation. Creation is only to be respected (made holy) as the handiwork of our God. It is never to be worshiped. This is why western civilization holds nothing sacred. Not king, not country, not flag, not clergy. This is the basis of our freedoms. The first ammendment rights are based on this idea. This is where the founding fathers got this stuff. Fundamentalist evangelicals violate this basic principle every time the put the printed Bible ahead of God, ahead of Christ, or ahead of the Holy Spirit. The belief in the infallability of the printed Bible may be the worst heresy to affect the church today."  www.newreformation.org/heresy3.htm


Francis Bacon called it back in 1620:


"For nothing is so mischievous as the apotheosis of error; and it is a very plague of the understanding for vanity to become the object of veneration. Yet in this vanity some of the moderns have with extreme levity indulged so far as to attempt to found a system of natural philosophy on the first chapter of Genesis, on the book of Job, and other parts of the sacred writings, seeking for the dead among the living; which also makes the inhibition and repression of it the more important, because from this unwholesome mixture of things human and divine there arises not only a fantastic philosophy [science] but also a heretical religion. Very meet it is therefore that we be sober-minded, and give to faith that only which is faith's."  Francis Bacon. Novum Organum  LXV, 1620  www.constitution.org/bacon/nov_org.htm


So yes, once you leave God and worship a false idol.  Once you ignore God in His Creation, yes, you are doomed to a life of lies.


"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 11:15AM #32
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 25, 2012 -- 1:36PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Neither science nor the Bible will ever support you. Meanwhile, as you wallow in your cult's lies, the rest of us are moving forward. 



You have separated science from God here.  For Iama, the tragedy is that science is not separate from God.  God has 2 books: scripture and Creation.  Science reads God's book of Creation.  So God contradicts Iama. Contradicts in 2 places: scripture and His Creation.  Iama is turning her back on God.  That is tragic.

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 11:15AM #33
McAtheist
Posts: 7,863

lucaspa: So yes, once you leave God and worship a false idol.  Once you ignore God in His Creation, yes, you are doomed to a life of lies.


Thanks for reminding us tha YECism doesn't represent Christianity and in fact, isn't even really Christian.  It is unfortunately easy to forget the huge number of huge number of quietly rational theists in the flood of gibberish that comes from the YEC movement.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 11:31AM #34
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 27, 2012 -- 11:15AM, McAtheist wrote:


lucaspa: So yes, once you leave God and worship a false idol.  Once you ignore God in His Creation, yes, you are doomed to a life of lies.


Thanks for reminding us tha YECism doesn't represent Christianity and in fact, isn't even really Christian.  It is unfortunately easy to forget the huge number of huge number of quietly rational theists in the flood of gibberish that comes from the YEC movement.



You are welcome.  It is very easy in today's world when anything older than 24 hours ago is forgotten to forget that Christians showed YEC to be wrong in the first place.  It is easy to forget that all the plaintiffs in all the trials to get evolution into science classrooms and to keep creationism in all its forms out have been Christians.  Both extremes -- YECs and militant atheists -- like to portray YEC vs evolution as theism vs atheism.  But it is not.  It is Fundamentalism vs Christians and everyone else.

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 12:21PM #35
rsielin
Posts: 4,166

I think the key question here is: why fall for that initial falsehood hook line and sinker in the first place?  What is it in the makeup of our creationist friends that they are so gullible to this rather obvious falsehood.  


It doesn't have to be. One can still be a devout and thoughful Christian without being under the spell of this falsehood. A growing list of 12,000+ Christian clergy have attested to that fact. And they are the most learned and devout within the Christian community. What gives here?


If we could solve this problem, creationism could get fixed rather fast.


Any ideas?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 12:36PM #36
amcolph
Posts: 17,151

They are Dispensationalists, not Traditional Christians.  For them, the Bible must be a seamless and accurate history of the universe from the beginning to the end times or their religion fails.

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 6:20PM #37
Blü
Posts: 24,649

iama


I will continue to call "goo to zoo to you" evolution a speculation, until I am presented with scientific evidence that all life-forms are reproductively related.


You know that's simply untrue.


You've been presented with evidence of all the aspects of evolution you've ever asked for.


And you've simply refused to read it.


You have no intention of understanding anything that might contradict your obsessive prejudices.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 6:57PM #38
rsielin
Posts: 4,166

You cannot have an intelligent discussion, debate or argument when one party lies. It's meaningless.

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2 years ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 1:16PM #39
rsielin
Posts: 4,166

Apr 25, 2012 -- 12:21PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

iama:  I will continue to call "goo to zoo to you" evolution a speculation, until I am presented with scientific evidence that all life-forms are reproductively related. 



But by any honest person's reasoning, you have been amply presented with clear-cut, unmistakable, compelling and overwhelming empirical evidence that in fact all life-forms ARE reproductively related. Take off those blindfolds and quit denying the obvious. I


And most recently this addition to the long list of evidence, the new technology of genome sequencing now has mathematical proof positive that WITHOUT A DOUBT all life-forms are reproductively related. If you don't believe me you can read it for yourself right from the genomes.


You have no empirical evidence to credibly say otherwise.


Now what are you going to do, IAMA?  At best you can say you don't understand or personally just can't accept the implications of the evidence, but you really can't say its never been presented and still be honest with yourself.


Moderated by rangerken on May 09, 2012 - 06:41PM
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2 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 1:26AM #40
McAtheist
Posts: 7,863

iama:  I will continue to call "goo to zoo to you" evolution a speculation, until I am presented with scientific evidence that all life-forms are reproductively related.


But you will of course stop claiming that the Earth is only a few thousand years old, since you have been presented with overwhelming evidence that your YECish notion there is completely wrong.


And you will also stop claiming that humans ever lived to be hundreds of years old, since every single piece of data on that topic strongly contradicts that particular YECish foolishness.


And you will stop claiming that all the humans and modern animal species living today sprung from a handful of breeders 4K years ago since all available data strongly contradicts that part of the fairy tale.


And you will give up the nonsense saying that humans and dinosaurs ever lived together on the Earth, since all the data strongly contradicts that.


Right?


After all, you are implying that the only reason you don't accept evolution is a lack of evidence, so you must be ready to concede on all the many points where strong evidence contradicts YECism. 


I'm sure everyone is as eager as I am to read your concession on these other points.

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