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Switch to Forum Live View Mazon Creek fossil beds
2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:32AM #21
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,661

Apr 8, 2012 -- 1:44PM, wohali wrote:



iama:  You are speaking both evolution paradigm and creation paradigm, here, wohali.


wohali: No, I'm not. I'm providing evidence that the fossil record clearly shows that organisms from different epochs are seperated, disproving the bibliodolator's contention that the Earth was createg in 6 days a few thousand years ago.



iama: What evidence persuades you that the world's vast sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?  There is no evidence of life-form activity BETWEEN each of the layers, because they were all laid down by The Flood during the same year. 


So, what evidence is there that the sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:41AM #22
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,661

Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:28PM, wohali wrote:



wohali: Fascinating, our creationist friends have no explaination for epoch specific fossil beds other than "post flood".



iama:  wohali, I don't understand this statement.  What do you mean by "post flood"?


The Creation / The Flood paradigm understands that each of the sedimentary layers found worldwide, were ALL laid down DURING the one year period of The Flood.  There may be post-flood smaller floods which left sediments, just like the Mount St. Helen's eruption left flood-like evidences.


There are no "epochs" in the Creation / Flood paradigm, because The Flood was responsible for all of the LAYERS of sediments, and ALL of those layers were laid down during one year's time.  All of the per-The Flood life-forms which became fossilized as a result of becoming buried in conditions favorable for fossilization, were preserved in those sediments as the sediments were carried and deposited by The Flood waters.


Please explain what you meant, above.


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:42AM #23
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:32AM, iamachildofhis wrote:

iama: What evidence persuades you that the world's vast sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?  There is no evidence of life-form activity BETWEEN each of the layers, because they were all laid down by The Flood during the same year.



Do you have any idea of what a sedimentary layer is? Why would you speak of finding evidence of life between them? That doesn't make sense.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:46AM #24
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,661

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:42AM, Ken wrote:



iama: What evidence persuades you that the world's vast sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?  There is no evidence of life-form activity BETWEEN each of the layers, because they were all laid down by The Flood during the same year.


Ken: Do you have any idea of what a sedimentary layer is? Why would you speak of finding evidence of life between them? That doesn't make sense.



iama:  How do you understand these evolutionary-speculation "epochs," then?


Millions of years with no life-form activity evidences, having taken place BETWEEN THEM?


That doesn't make sense!


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 6:36AM #25
rsielin
Posts: 4,346

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:46AM, iamachildofhis wrote:

iama:  How do you understand these evolutionary-speculation "epochs," then?


Millions of years with no life-form activity evidences, having taken place BETWEEN THEM?


That doesn't make sense!


ROTFLMAO [catches breath] [breathe] ROTFLMAO [gotta quit ... side it hurting too much] ROTFLMAO


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 10:35AM #26
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:46AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:42AM, Ken wrote:

iama: What evidence persuades you that the world's vast sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?  There is no evidence of life-form activity BETWEEN each of the layers, because they were all laid down by The Flood during the same year.


Do you have any idea of what a sedimentary layer is? Why would you speak of finding evidence of life between them? That doesn't make sense.



How do you understand these evolutionary-speculation "epochs," then?


Millions of years with no life-form activity evidences, having taken place BETWEEN THEM?


That doesn't make sense!



What do you mean by "between them"? What are you talking about?




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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 11:49AM #27
Sigmund
Posts: 1,305

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:25AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 8, 2012 -- 1:21AM, McAtheist wrote:



Iam: Dinosaurs, mammals, insects, amphibians, reptiles, birds, beasts of the field, etc., were all created "In the beginning God..." So, all life-form kinds existed on Day 7.


McAtheist: All the evidence strongly contradict this; all the evidence strongly demonstrates that various types of animals were separated by millions of years.  And no, YECS still don't have a viable explanation for why the fossil record is organized the way we find it.  Until such a time as said explanation is discovered and the evidence to support it found, your creation story remains just that: a non-scientific, theological story.



iama:  Yes, you are correct IF, IF, IF the sedimentary layers which exist WORLDWIDE each represent long ages of time as the evolution speculation re: geologists holding to those evolution speculations, are CORRECT!  But, according to The Bible, they are INCORRECT!




But according to the EVIDENCE, they ARE correct.


Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:25AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


The parameters which existed at the time of The Flood included?


1. Rain


2. "fountains of the great deep" opening up


3. vulcanism


4. ocean currents


5. volcanic activity


6. ash, rocks, lava


7. tsunamis


8. tides


9. wind


10. ocean currents


11. earthquakes


12. mountains rising


13. volcanic mountain building


14. sea mount building


15. tectonic movements of the Earth's crust


16. destruction of the Earth's topography


17. deposition of great quantities of sediments


18. chemicals in solution cementing sediments


19. caves forming


20. receding waters carving out valleys, canyons, river valleys, etc.


21. ideal conditions for fossil formation


.




This list looks so much less impressive when you realize that:


1. vulcanism, volcanic activity, ash, rocks, lava, volcanic mountain building, and sea mount building are all parts of the same process; volcanism. Depending on the type of cave, you could include cave forming in there as well;


2. You have ocean currents listed twice;


and


3. You have several things listed for which there is no empirical evidence: "fountains of the great deep" opening up, mountains rising (in the time frame required), tectonic movements of the Earth's crust (in the time frame required), chemicals in solution cementing sediments (in the time frame required), and receding waters carving out valleys, canyons, river valleys, etc. (in a way that could produce features found in the Grand Canyon. By the way, the canyon formed by the Mt. St. Helen's eruption is NOT analogous to the Grand Canyon).


All of this just goes to show that you truly don't understand science and how scientists arrive at their "preconceptions/presumptions/whatever."

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:07PM #28
Midutch
Posts: 4,220

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:28AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 7, 2012 -- 12:30PM, wohali wrote:



wohali: 57, why do you think that pleiosaurs aren't found?



iama: Being strong, fast swimmers, they were able to move through / out of the sediments as they were being deposited!  They weren't killed / buried, and so there are no fossil remains found.


Wait, wait, wait. That must mean that plesiosaurs are alive today, just like the porpoises and whales and ichthyosaurs and Dunkleosteus and Megalodon who were ALSO "strong, fast swimmers, they were able to move through / out of the sediments as they were being deposited!"


Why do you think "that pleisosaurs (fossils) aren't found"?  Is this of particular study / interest for you?


Wait, wait, wait. Pleiosaur fossils ARE found. In fact, that is ALL that we have of plesiosaurs. Just not in the carboniferous epoch of the Mazon Creek Fossil Beds. That IS the whole point of this thread.


Of course, given this very clear demonstration of how well you understand science in this post of yours, I would not be surprised if you make a completely ludicrous and unsubstantiated claim that plesiosaurs were "strong, fast swimmers, [who] were able to move through / out of the sediments as they were being [carefully sorted and] deposited!" for the carboniferous epoch, but that they were all "too weak and slow to move through / out of the sediments as they were being [carefully sorted and] deposited!" for the cretaceous period!" 



"creationism" ... 2000+ years worth of ABYSMAL FAILURE ... and proud of it.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:37PM #29
Sigmund
Posts: 1,305

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:32AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 8, 2012 -- 1:44PM, wohali wrote:



iama:  You are speaking both evolution paradigm and creation paradigm, here, wohali.


wohali: No, I'm not. I'm providing evidence that the fossil record clearly shows that organisms from different epochs are seperated, disproving the bibliodolator's contention that the Earth was createg in 6 days a few thousand years ago.



iama: What evidence persuades you that the world's vast sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?  There is no evidence of life-form activity BETWEEN each of the layers, because they were all laid down by The Flood during the same year. 


So, what evidence is there that the sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?


.




The bolded part of the above is a flat out fabrication on your part. You have been shown time and time again evidence for life form activity between layers:


Fossil Raindrops (yes I know not technically "life-form" activity)


www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurr...


Fossilized Burrows


www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/t_origins/ca...


Trace Fossils


museum.gov.ns.ca/mnh/nature/tracefossils...


Yes, I know that, based on your presuppositions/preconceptions/hand-waving denial, you don't ACCEPT this as evidence, that doesn't change the fact that it is, in fact evidence as defined and required by the scientific method.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2012 - 12:46PM #30
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:37PM, Sigmund wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 12:32AM, iamachildofhis wrote:

iama: What evidence persuades you that the world's vast sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?  There is no evidence of life-form activity BETWEEN each of the layers, because they were all laid down by The Flood during the same year. 


So, what evidence is there that the sedimentary layers represent long-ages of time?




The bolded part of the above is a flat out fabrication on your part. You have been shown time and time again evidence for life form activity between layers:


Fossil Raindrops (yes I know not technically "life-form" activity)


www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurr...


Fossilized Burrows


www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/t_origins/ca...


Trace Fossils


museum.gov.ns.ca/mnh/nature/tracefossils...



Surely all of those are on the layers, not between them. I don't understand what "between the layers" means.

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