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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 11:24PM #61
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:01PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 9:59PM, rsielin wrote:

iama: What evidence do you have which would indicate that all of the world wide sedimentary deposits are not the result of a year-long world wide Flood?


How about the entirety of geologic evidence and knowledge accumulated in modern times? You too can find and examine the evidence at any of our leading research universities. You're remiss if you don't.



I will, gladly take all of the scientifically gathered DATA, but I will be very careful to evaluate all of the speculation interpretations which are made based upon that scientifically gathered DATA, because the speculation interpretations are being made based upon their evoluton-long-age-presuppositions!.



The long ages are not presuppositions. They have been proved. They are facts. A reasonable person has no choice but to accept them.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 11:44PM #62
McAtheist
Posts: 8,064

iama:  I have ONLY seen evidence for variation within the created KIND, which is NEVER evidence for "goo to zoo to you."


Really?  Funny how you can't come up with a YEC explanation for why lions and tigers --- the same "kind" in your "model" -- can only produce sterile males.  Your "big cat kind" is diverging into 2 populations. 


And no it isn't because lions and tigers have "lost" information since the flood.  Observed scientific evidence you YECs constantly ignore disproves that idea: MHC genes in today's animals have many more alleles than the 4 that your ark kind could contribute; obviously, new information has been added.


Will you recognize the evidence of variation outside your imaginary "created kinds" this time when it's presented to you, Iam? 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 11:45PM #63
Midutch
Posts: 4,164

Apr 29, 2012 -- 9:59PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

Can you visualize a huge dinosaur attempting to climb as humans or small animals could?


Could you explain how mastadons, mammoths, wooly rhinos, indricotherium, megatherium, terror birds, etc. were better climbers than the dinos?


They are NEVER found with dino fossils either and, in many respects, are built just like the dinos.


My guess, you won't even touch this question becaue it demonstrates how ridiculous your "answer" is.

"creationism" ... 2000+ years worth of ABYSMAL FAILURE ... and proud of it.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:00AM #64
McAtheist
Posts: 8,064

iam: 1. "And the rains came tumbling down. The rains came down and the floods came up..."Those flying dinosaurs flying while "the rains came down..." Have you seen what the rain and wind do to an umbrella?


And yet not a single modern bird fell victim to that same problem.  So, YECism not only abandons evidence, but basic logic, too.  The YEC model just gets more and more credible every day, doesn't it? ROTFLMAO


iam: 2. Have you ever used a rock tumbler, McAtheist?  What is the function of a rock tumbler? As you can see if you observe rocks along a river, The Flood  / water is like a rock tumbler.3. Depending upon what the houses were made of: rock, mud, wood, cement, skins, why would you expect houses to survive The Flood intact?  Wood would float.  Mud would disolve, skins would be destroyed. Cement?? Did they have it?  Don't know.


So every single human artifact was destroyed but colonies of dinosaur nests with the eggs and shells intact weren't disturbed at all.  And you see no fundamental flaw in this "thinking", eh?  You can type with a straight fact that this makes sense and can pretend it is as scientifically sound as mainstream geology?  In what way is this kind of thinking not delusional?


iam: 8. Who is capable of understanding the effects of The Flood of such magnitude?


Real geologists with a real education in the field.  They know things like how much energy is released with something changes from liquid to solid, so they can figure out how much energy had to have been released when all your alleged flood sediments lithified --- and that energy was sufficient to boil away all the oceans on Earth.  Explosions violent enough to toss the asteroid belt into space would leave a tremendous amount of evidence.  The evidence is clear ---- your flood never happened.


I swear, if science is the vehicle by which we understand our world, then YECism is the clown car.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:17AM #65
McAtheist
Posts: 8,064

iam: What evidence do you have which would indicate that all of the world wide sedimentary deposits are not the result of a year-long world wide Flood?


How about the evidence of 500K years of radiometric dating that the ICR- and CRS-backed RATE project found when they actually looked at the evidence for the first time in the history of YECdom:  "The RATE researchers concede that there is evidence for “more than 500 million years worth (at today’s rates) of nuclear and radioisotope decay” (p. 284, Thousands not Billions: Challenging an Icon of Evolution)."


How about the physical impossibility of any flood of any kind no matter what the accompanying weather/turbulence/etc. depositing completely distinct alternating layers of sediment once every 10 minutes?


How about the obvious logical flaw in YEC "thinking" that if your "model" was right, first the flood stripped every ounce of soil from the bedrock everywhere in the world and then the entire world was covered in rock --- there wasn't anywhere on Earth to grow plants to feed your imaginary ark friends?


Good grief, YECism is just laughable.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:46AM #66
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,109

Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:09PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  I have ONLY seen evidence for variation within the created KIND, which is NEVER evidence for "goo to zoo to you."





The day you or anyone else provides evidence for variation "within the created kind" is the day I join the YEC movement.


So get cracking.

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:58AM #67
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,109

Apr 30, 2012 -- 12:46AM, MMarcoe wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:09PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  I have ONLY seen evidence for variation within the created KIND, which is NEVER evidence for "goo to zoo to you."





The day you or anyone else provides evidence for variation "within the created kind" is the day I join the YEC movement.


So get cracking.





Hey Iama, did you read where I (numerous times) reminded you that your much-hallowed conserved core processes can and do evolve over time? Don't go trotting it out as "evidence" for your variation within kinds. No one here will believe you.


How much longer are you going to sweep that under the rug before it blows up in your face?


 

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:07PM #68
d_p_m
Posts: 9,795

Apr 29, 2012 -- 11:01PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  I will, gladly take all of the scientifically gathered DATA, but I will be very careful to evaluate all of the speculation interpretations which are made based upon that scientifically gathered DATA, because the speculation interpretations are being made based upon their evoluton-long-age-presuppositions!




In other words, you will re-write any science you come across, into a dispensationalist friendly form of pseudo-science, and then claim that it is still science.


That is not true.


The science includes the deductions and conclusions, which are peer reviewed, and form the basis of further confirmatory science. As well, there are interactions between the sciences that you seem unaware of, which make many of your re-writings obvious and patent nonsense, due to the inherent falsifications in related scientific fields that reveal your ad hoc modifications to be inconsistent with the observed universe.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr


“Extinguished theologians lie about the cradle of every science as the strangled snakes beside that of Hercules; and history records that whenever science and orthodoxy have been fairly opposed, the latter has been forced to retire from the lists, bleeding and crushed if not annihilated; scotched, if not slain.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley, Lay Sermons, Addresses, and Reviews


“The science, the art, the jurisprudence, the chief political and social theories, of the modern world have grown out of Greece and Rome—not by favour of, but in the teeth of, the fundamental teachings of early Christianity, to which science, art, and any serious occupation with the things of this world were alike despicable.”

― Thomas Henry Huxley, Agnosticism and Christianity and Other Essays
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 11:13PM #69
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,537

Apr 30, 2012 -- 12:58AM, MMarcoe wrote:



iama:  I have ONLY seen evidence for variation within the created KIND, which is NEVER evidence for "goo to zoo to you."

MMarcoe: The day you or anyone else provides evidence for variation "within the created kind" is the day I join the YEC movement.


So get cracking.



iama: Watch / listen to the following video:



Prof. Marc Kirschner - Facilitated variation




MMarcoe: Hey Iama, did you read where I (numerous times) reminded you that your much-hallowed conserved core processes can and do evolve over time? Don't go trotting it out as "evidence" for your variation within kinds. No one here will believe you.


How much longer are you going to sweep that under the rug before it blows up in your face?



iama:  All genetic entities are / can be subject to loss of information from various types of mutations.  Is that what you mean?  Loss of information is usually deleterious.


Listen to Marc Kirschner's statement toward the end of the video where he states "conserved" for billions of years????


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 11:50PM #70
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,109

Apr 30, 2012 -- 11:13PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Apr 30, 2012 -- 12:58AM, MMarcoe wrote:



iama:  I have ONLY seen evidence for variation within the created KIND, which is NEVER evidence for "goo to zoo to you."

MMarcoe: The day you or anyone else provides evidence for variation "within the created kind" is the day I join the YEC movement.


So get cracking.



iama: Watch / listen to the following video:



Prof. Marc Kirschner - Facilitated variation




MMarcoe: Hey Iama, did you read where I (numerous times) reminded you that your much-hallowed conserved core processes can and do evolve over time? Don't go trotting it out as "evidence" for your variation within kinds. No one here will believe you.


How much longer are you going to sweep that under the rug before it blows up in your face?



iama:  All genetic entities are / can be subject to loss of information from various types of mutations.  Is that what you mean?  Loss of information is usually deleterious.


No. What I mean is that conserved core processes (CCP) themselves are subject to evolving over time. That's what I said above. I'm not talking about "genetic entities." The CCPs that you hold to be evidence of fixed kinds are themselves changeable. And that means that they cannot conserve kinds.


Listen to Marc Kirschner's statement toward the end of the video where he states "conserved" for billions of years????


The video is nearly an hour long, so I'd rather you told me exactly where he said that. Did he state that CCPs were unchanging? Just what did he mean by "conserved"? 





There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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