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2 years ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 9:17PM #1
steven_guy
Posts: 11,748
I know that Creationists, particularly the young earth variety, strongly believe that the mythical flood described in the Old Testament was actually a worldwide flood, even though there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest this. However, I am curious to find out if there are any "floodless"
Creationists? Can one be a Creationist and agree that there never was a global flood? 
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 9:28PM #2
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 2, 2012 -- 9:17PM, steven_guy wrote:

I know that Creationists, particularly the young earth variety, strongly believe that the mythical flood described in the Old Testament was actually a worldwide flood, even though there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest this. However, I am curious to find out if there are any "floodless"
Creationists? Can one be a Creationist and agree that there never was a global flood? 


I shouldn't think so. Creationists believe they'll go to hell unless they swallow every verse of Genesis as sober history. That's the whole point of being a creationist.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 9:37PM #3
steven_guy
Posts: 11,748

Apr 2, 2012 -- 9:28PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 2, 2012 -- 9:17PM, steven_guy wrote:

I know that Creationists, particularly the young earth variety, strongly believe that the mythical flood described in the Old Testament was actually a worldwide flood, even though there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest this. However, I am curious to find out if there are any "floodless"
Creationists? Can one be a Creationist and agree that there never was a global flood? 


I shouldn't think so. Creationists believe they'll go to hell unless they swallow every verse of Genesis as sober history. That's the whole point of being a creationist.




I am sure you're right, but I seem to remember hearing about Creationists who believed that all the fossil evidence was placed in the rocks by God as a means of testing the faith of believers. Maybe no such Creationists ever existed? I confess that I am no expert on the beliefs of various Creationist groups. They all seem equally nutty to me.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 9:44PM #4
Oncomintrain
Posts: 3,088

Oh Steve and Ken... the Statler and Waldorf of the OoL board.


Joking aside, I've seen similar veins frequently lately, and it bears remembering that there exist OECs, who aren't necessarily strict literalists.


Granted, they are rarer...

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 9:47PM #5
lucaspa
Posts: 557

Apr 2, 2012 -- 9:17PM, steven_guy wrote:

I know that Creationists, particularly the young earth variety, strongly believe that the mythical flood described in the Old Testament was actually a worldwide flood, even though there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest this.



First, you need to be careful about that "isn't a shred of evidence".  As Karl Popper pointed out, there is evidence for ANY and EVERY theory (no matter how wrong) if you look for that type of evidence.  What counts is the evidence against. What happened was that there is evidence (literally mountains of it) that can't be there if there was a world wide flood.  There are geological features that cannot possibly have been caused by a global flood.  So, yes, YECers are Flood Geologists, but Flood Geology is falsified.


Second, Flood Geology is essential to preserve a young earth. Without Flood Geology, there is no way to have all those layers of sedimentary rock present on a young earth.


However, I am curious to find out if there are any "floodless"
Creationists? Can one be a Creationist and agree that there never was a global flood? 



Not a YEC.  However, there are many forms of creationism, and YEC is only one of them.  All the forms of Old Earth Creationism do not require Noah's Flood and Intelligent Design implicitly dismisses it.  You can find the creationism continuum here:


ncse.com/creationism/general/creationevo...

"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault."  Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works."  James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, The Religious Aspects of Evolution, 2d ed. 1890, pg 68.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 02, 2012 - 10:20PM #6
Blü
Posts: 24,924

lucaspa


What counts is the evidence against.


It would be fair to say that the evidence against would only become relevant when the case for had been shown to be a reasonable hypothesis, no?


And the onus of doing that lies with the person who asserts the hypothesis and by necessary inference its reasonableness, no?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 2:58PM #7
ni-cherise
Posts: 94

Apr 2, 2012 -- 9:17PM, steven_guy wrote:

I know that Creationists, particularly the young earth variety, strongly believe that the mythical flood described in the Old Testament was actually a worldwide flood, even though there isn't a shred of evidence to suggest this. However, I am curious to find out if there are any "floodless"
Creationists? Can one be a Creationist and agree that there never was a global flood? 



I don't know what to believe on this global flood situation. There have been many scientist and documentaries saying that there is evidence of a global flood, and there are scientist who says there is no evidence of a global flood...And i'm talking real science, not any of that "ceationist" bullcrap. I'm done with either side of that debate, I don't trust either side.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 3:15PM #8
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 10, 2012 -- 2:58PM, ni-cherise wrote:

I don't know what to believe on this global flood situation. There have been many scientist and documentaries saying that there is evidence of a global flood, and there are scientist who says there is no evidence of a global flood...And i'm talking real science, not any of that "creationist" bullcrap. I'm done with either side of that debate, I don't trust either side.



The "scientists" who say there is evidence of a global flood are religiously motivated  pseudo-scientists and their documentaries are nothing more than dishonest religious propaganda. All the real scientists say there is no evidence, and they're right - there isn't. Everything that the pseudo-scientists offer as evidence has been knocked into a cocked hat a hundred times over, but they still keep offering it.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 3:49PM #9
ni-cherise
Posts: 94

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 2:58PM, ni-cherise wrote:

I don't know what to believe on this global flood situation. There have been many scientist and documentaries saying that there is evidence of a global flood, and there are scientist who says there is no evidence of a global flood...And i'm talking real science, not any of that "creationist" bullcrap. I'm done with either side of that debate, I don't trust either side.



The "scientists" who say there is evidence of a global flood are religiously motivated  pseudo-scientists and their documentaries are nothing more than dishonest religious propaganda. All the real scientists say there is no evidence, and they're right - there isn't. Everything that the pseudo-scientists offer as evidence has been knocked into a cocked hat a hundred times over, but they still keep offering it.




No, every scientist that has said there is evidence of a global flood, are not religiously motivated. The documentaries never bring up Genesis, God, or creation, I know, because I always wait to hear those certain comments. That's why I don't know what to believe, so i'm leaving either side of that debate alone.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 4:10PM #10
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,352

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:49PM, ni-cherise wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:15PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 2:58PM, ni-cherise wrote:

I don't know what to believe on this global flood situation. There have been many scientist and documentaries saying that there is evidence of a global flood, and there are scientist who says there is no evidence of a global flood...And i'm talking real science, not any of that "creationist" bullcrap. I'm done with either side of that debate, I don't trust either side.



The "scientists" who say there is evidence of a global flood are religiously motivated  pseudo-scientists and their documentaries are nothing more than dishonest religious propaganda. All the real scientists say there is no evidence, and they're right - there isn't. Everything that the pseudo-scientists offer as evidence has been knocked into a cocked hat a hundred times over, but they still keep offering it.




No, every scientist that has said there is evidence of a global flood, are not religiously motivated. The documentaries never bring up Genesis, God, or creation, I know, because I always wait to hear those certain comments. That's why I don't know what to believe, so i'm leaving either side of that debate alone.





There is a reason they don't bring up Genesis, God, or creation -- they are hiding their religious motivation. I have read articles in the popular science press about how creationists have begun doing this so as to worm their way into the mainstream scientific world.


They will even dress up their convictions in fancy words that seem all sciency, but it's either just speculation or casting doubt upon ideas that are accepted by mainstream scientists.


 

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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