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Switch to Forum Live View The Big Bang, Evolution, and other Myths
2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 4:23PM #501
d_p_m
Posts: 9,609

One classic example of a failure of science occurred in the 18th or 19th century in the United States, during a summer long outbreak of yellow fever. I don't have the relevant book to hand, so I can't give you all the details, but it was in one of those Eastern towns - Philadelphia, Boston, or the like.


At least one of the doctors treating the epidemic considered bloodletting to reduce the fever was the appropriate treatment, and he dashed around from dawn to dusk, seeing patients. He guaranteed that if you came to him soon enough he could cure  you. He'd let out a third of the patient's blood, then hop into a carriage (he kept swapping between two of them to rest the horses) and on to the next patient. Unfortunately, it seems that none of his patients came to him soon enough.


It wasn't until considerably later that someone went over his notes, and determined that he overestimated the amount of blood in the human body by about a factor of three, and thus was removing most of his patients' blood during his treatments.


That was a failure of science.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"One need only watch a few minutes of any Orphan Black episode to see why Tatiana Maslany deserves to win every acting award available."

    —Mark Rozeman, http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2014/07/18-first-time-emmy-nominees-wed-like-to-see.html?a=1
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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 4:58PM #502
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 3, 2012 -- 12:07PM, d_p_m wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 9:18AM, newchurchguy wrote:


From the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:




You know, trying to use something as fuzzy and opinion driven as philosophy to define science seems wrong, in many senses of the word.



Especially using the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It's trendy rubbish.

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 5:00PM #503
farragut
Posts: 3,939

Is not philosophy the love of sophistry?Tongue Out

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2 years ago  ::  May 03, 2012 - 5:35PM #504
amcolph
Posts: 17,153

May 3, 2012 -- 3:44PM, newchurchguy wrote:


This is great!!  Maybe you could still contact one of these teachers and ask them who Pierre Duhem is and the importance of his Aim and Structure of Physical Theory.  I bet they do know.






Quite a good book.  I still have my copy around somewhere--it was on the list for the Philosophy of Science class we all had to take and provoked much interesting discussion.


Of course, that was fifty years ago before it became necessary to be either a Realist or a science-hater.  There were more options back in those days.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:33AM #505
vansdad
Posts: 55

May 3, 2012 -- 10:40AM, d_p_m wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 9:00AM, vansdad wrote:



When a theory is proven it becomes a fact.




Ok, we can stop there.


One of your problems is that you don't know what a theory is.




"a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact."



Not according to this definition.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:37AM #506
vansdad
Posts: 55

May 3, 2012 -- 11:52AM, wohali wrote:



The great thing about scientific theories is that they are constantly reviewed and modified as we gain additional evidence/information/testability.


Holy books, not so much.




But there is still no answer from "science" as to the existance of the universe.  Maybe the holy book is correct in saying it was a creation.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:47AM #507
steven_guy
Posts: 11,739

May 4, 2012 -- 12:37AM, vansdad wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 11:52AM, wohali wrote:



The great thing about scientific theories is that they are constantly reviewed and modified as we gain additional evidence/information/testability.


Holy books, not so much.




But there is still no answer from "science" as to the existance of the universe.  Maybe the holy book is correct in saying it was a creation.




The universe has always been around in one form or another. That's what science tells us. Holy books give us fairy tales.

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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 12:49AM #508
steven_guy
Posts: 11,739

May 4, 2012 -- 12:33AM, vansdad wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 10:40AM, d_p_m wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 9:00AM, vansdad wrote:



When a theory is proven it becomes a fact.




Ok, we can stop there.


One of your problems is that you don't know what a theory is.




"a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact."



Not according to this definition.




A scientific theory is the conclusion of the scientific method.


Evolution happens - we see that. The theory of evolution describes what we see in a scientific way. My I add that evolutionary theory is one of the least controversial areas of science. 




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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 2:27AM #509
Oncomintrain
Posts: 2,973

May 4, 2012 -- 12:33AM, vansdad wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 10:40AM, d_p_m wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 9:00AM, vansdad wrote:



When a theory is proven it becomes a fact.




Ok, we can stop there.


One of your problems is that you don't know what a theory is.


Not according to this definition.




You know what's funny? You didn't cite your source. Know what's funnier? It doesn't matter. That definition originated with the 1996 edition of Webster, where it was the #2 definition. The #1 definition was:


>This is the accurate context for understanding ANY theory in science, as this is the scientific usage of the word. For the record, the Theory of Evolution is one of the most thoroughly confirmed theories (that is, coherent, tested, explanatory, predictive propositions) in all of science.

Moderated by Jcarlinbn on May 04, 2012 - 01:07PM
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2 years ago  ::  May 04, 2012 - 3:21AM #510
d_p_m
Posts: 9,609

May 4, 2012 -- 12:33AM, vansdad wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 10:40AM, d_p_m wrote:


May 3, 2012 -- 9:00AM, vansdad wrote:



When a theory is proven it becomes a fact.




Ok, we can stop there.


One of your problems is that you don't know what a theory is.




"a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact."



Not according to this definition.




Exactly my point. You don't even know which definition to use when talking about science.

"If you aren't confused by quantum physics, you haven't really understood it."

― Niels Bohr



"One need only watch a few minutes of any Orphan Black episode to see why Tatiana Maslany deserves to win every acting award available."

    —Mark Rozeman, http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2014/07/18-first-time-emmy-nominees-wed-like-to-see.html?a=1
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