Dec 11, 2011 -- 7:25AM, Blü wrote:

iama:

The "journey of Christmas" began "from before the foundation of the world," and was foretold in the Old Testament books, beginning with Genesis 3:15

Blu: If you want to know whether this is true or not, ask a Jew.  They wrote the book, after all.

iama:  There are many different positions regarding The Bible held among believing and non-believing Jews.  Messianic Jews agree with the, above statement.  Non-believing Jews, of course, would not.

Many religious Jews have allegorical interpretations of their own Scriptures and would agree with non-Jews' liberal allegorical interpretations.

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Dec 16, 2011 -- 8:09AM, Blü wrote:

iama

Messianic Jews agree with the, above statement.

Blu: Messianic Jews don't think Jesus has anything to do with anything. 

There's a tiny Jewish sect who say Jesus was the messiah, but they are part neither of orthodox nor liberal Judaism, and their scholarship is self-evidently abysmal.

iama:  Who says so, and upon what evidence / basis do they say so?

You must have some authority who is above the Jews, and your self, for stating so.

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Dec 16, 2011 -- 10:27PM, iamachildofhis wrote:

Dec 16, 2011 -- 8:09AM, Blü wrote:

iama

Messianic Jews agree with the, above statement.

Blu: Messianic Jews don't think Jesus has anything to do with anything. 

There's a tiny Jewish sect who say Jesus was the messiah, but they are part neither of orthodox nor liberal Judaism, and their scholarship is self-evidently abysmal.

iama:  Who says so, and upon what evidence / basis do they say so?

You must have some authority who is above the Jews, and your self, for stating so.

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You really ought to do your homework, iama.

You are confusing a small group called 'Jews for Jesus' with 'Messianic Jews', the later having nothing to do with the Christian Jesus.

Dec 17, 2011 -- 4:51PM, Blü wrote:

iama

You must have some authority who is above the Jews, and your self, for stating so.

Blu: You never take your own advice.  Since we're talking about reality, Creo writers aren't and never will be 'authority'.

And speaking of authority, did you remember to check with your local rabbis as to whether anything in Genesis foretells Jesus?  What did they say?

iama: I receive the messianic Jewish magazine Israel My Glory, published by and with their  radio program,  Friends of Israel.  This magazine contains biblical teaching identical to what I have believed for years.  And, yes, they do interpret Genesis 3:15 as the first prophetic reference to their Messiah, Christ Jesus.

The wiki article which Ken linked to, presents believing Jews in Christ Jesus, well.

Messianic Jews are like the original Christians, who were, mostly Jews, originally. 

Chuck Swindoll's audio this morning addresses just why the Jews rejected their Messiah.  The Old Testament prophecies present TWO pictures of the Jewish Messiah, and because of Rome's ruling over Israel, they were hoping for a Deliverer from Rome, and missed the suffering Messiah of Isaiah 53.

Amazing Predictions - Dec. 20

There are other predictions which are covered by Chuck Swindoll, Dec. 16, 19, 20:

Amazing Predictions - Dec. 16-20

These three audios, Unselfish Humility, present John 1:1 and following:

I began this thread with the very same biblical Journey to Christmas as Chuck Swindoll presents in the following three audios: Dec. 13, 14, 15.  He takes us on the most wondrous journey ever taken.  Our Creator-God journeys from Eternity to Calvary.

Unselfish Humility

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Dec 20, 2011 -- 2:43PM, Ken wrote:

iama: I receive the messianic Jewish magazine Israel My Glory, published by and with their  radio program,  Friends of Israel.  This magazine contains biblical teaching identical to what I have believed for years.  And, yes, they do interpret Genesis 3:15 as the first prophetic reference to their Messiah, Christ Jesus.

The wiki article which Ken linked to, presents believing Jews in Christ Jesus, well.

Ken: Messianic Jews aren't Jews. They're Jews who have apostatized by converting to Christianity. That makes them Christians.

iama: The very first Christ-one, was a Jew!  The Christ = The Messiah. For a Jew to believe that Christ Jesus was / is his / her Messiah, doesn't negate his / her Jewish heritage! A Christian Jew is what Matthew, Mark, John, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Mary, Joseph, etc., were.  Today, a Jew who becomes a Christian is no different from the above, who were Christian-Jews.

Messianic Jews are like the original Christians, who were, mostly Jews, originally.

Ken:  You would have hated the original Jewish Christians. They rejected Pauline Christianity in its entirety. They did not believe in original sin, the Atonement, or justification through faith. They did not believe that Jesus was God. They disapproved of the mission to the Gentiles. They observed the Law and worshipped in synagogues.

iama:  I would not have hated any of the original Jewish Christians.  And they did not "reject Pauline Christianity."  There were, certainly, Christian Jews who misunderstood the Gift of God's Grace, and thought that they needed to continue in their OT legalistic rituals in order to be right with God.  They didn't understand that human beings are incapable of saving themselves by any human good works.

You need to read what the Apostle Paul stated post-his meeting with the believers in Jerusalem.  They were in total agreement!

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