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Switch to Forum Live View Existential Underpinnings of Belief in Intelligent Design
3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:15AM #301
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 1:40PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 2:31AM, Roymond wrote:



iama:  "The love of money is the root of all evil."


Roymond: Wow  -- you can't even quote the Bible right.


iama:  Quote: 1Ti 6:10
    
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Roymond: Excellent demonstration that YECers aren't interested in studying the Bible!


Anyone who actually bothered studying it would know that the King James team got that translation wrong.  Of course that's evident from just casual observation of human life:  there's lots of evil that comes from motives that don't involve money at all, a fact that should make curious minds want to check on the translation.



iama:  Which translation do you consider to be correct, then?


1Ti 6:10 NKJV
    
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

1Ti 6:10 ESV
    
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.


1Ti 6:10 RSV
    
For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced their hearts with many pangs.


1Ti 6:10 NASB
    
For the love of money is a root of all fnsorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


1Ti 6:10 DBY
    
For the love of money is the root of every evil; which some having aspired after, have wandered from the faith, and pierced themselves with many sorrows.

1Ti 6:10 YLT
    
for a root of all the evils is the love of money, which certain longing for did go astray from the faith, and themselves did pierce through with many sorrows;


Roymond: BTW, if you take the Bible seriously, you should throw away the KJV, because it goes against the admonition of Apostle Paul to stick to languages people understand:  the English of the KJV is a foreign language to that of today, and is indeed even more dangerous than something like Latin because so many of the words look like words we use, but aren't the same words at all.



iama:  I grew up using the KJV so that means that my understanding of the KJV takes into account the OLD meanings of words which, today, have different meanings / conotations.


Sp, therefore, what does your "curious mind" understand 1 Ti 6:10a to mean?




Those in red are bad renditions, those in green are good ones, the ESV probably the best.


Just because you grew up using the KJV doesn't mean you understand it correctly.  For example, in King James English, what does "prevent" mean?

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:21AM #302
iamachildofhis
Posts: 11,927

Mar 4, 2015 -- 1:06AM, Roymond wrote:



iama: The words recorded in The Bible are there, because God-Holy Spirit WILLED that they be there!  It is His intention that those biblical words instruct humans regarding Himself, ourselves, history, the future, morality, etc.


Roymond: But YEC dogma refuses God's instruction.  It demands tha the Bible be something it isn't, and refuses to ask what God really said.  God the Holy Spirit promted Moses to write the Creation accounts in Genesis, and Moses wrote them using a form of literature that proclaims a mighty accomplishment of a great king.  It is not a statement of history in any way we think of it.  It's almost a hymn of praise, arranged poetically using "days" as a topical framework, not as real days.


YECers think they know better than God, though, and force Moses' triumphant declaration of praise to be something like a play-by-play sports broadcast.


iama:   Consider a different approach to Genesis than what your education - "your so-called-higher learning" -  gave to you:


Roymond: Unlike YECers, I dpn't hold ignorance and arrogance to be virtues.


Or lying -- that article started off with a lie right up front in the second paragraph.



iama:  Quote the lie and explain why it is a lie.

http://creation.com/creation-tv?fileID=N0RDR6y_QBc

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:23AM #303
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 1:46PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  Consider a different approach to Genesis than what your education - "your so-called-higher learning" -  gave to you:


McAtheist: Why should someone discard an interpretation that works with what is actually found in the real world (and, based on roymond's posts, better fits what roymond believes of god) for an unworkable interpretation that requires god lie through god's creation?


Maybe you should consider a different approach to Genesis, one that incorporates both faith and common sense.



iama: Maybe you should comprehend that I stand, solidly, upon the Genesis foundation as it was, originally, intended, just like Dr. Carl Wieland has done for over 37, and I for 67 years:


Dr Carl Wieland Bio Video




No, you don't, and neither does Wielund, because neither of you even acknowledge what kinds of literature the Creation accounts are.  Far better than Wielund, you should read Augustine of Hippo and Philo of Alexandria, both of whom -- among many, many others -- recognized that reading those accounts literally turns God into a liar.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:26AM #304
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 2:18PM, farragut wrote:


I prefer the Irma La Douce interpretation:


Le grisbi is le root of le evil in man, so gather in the loot, get as much as you can.




LOL


I've heard something similar, including an argument that the rigteous should accumulate as much wealth as possible, tokeep others from being led astray by riches.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:33AM #305
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 6:01PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  We need to take into account two things:  Who is the recorder, Paul, and Who is the recipient of this letter, Timothy.  The "all" evil refers to all humans.  The "some" fell victim to that sin, refers to Timothy and members of "the faith," which does not include all of the "all" who practice evil:




You mean the AUTHOR, Paul.


Mar 3, 2015 -- 6:01PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


The Greek,  philargyros,   φιλá½±ργυρος, according to Strong's means: love of money, avarice.


This is a compound Greek word: philos - he who associates familiarly with one, a companion, and


argyros,  things made of silver - vessels, images of gods




Your Greek analysis is amazingly inept.


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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:41AM #306
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 3, 2015 -- 6:01PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama: The "love of self," above care for others, is listed, below, FIRST.  Humanism is a "love of self" / hatred for our Good Creator-God.  There is no reason, according to the presuppositions held by evolutionists, for any thing other than, "lovers of self."  The atheistic origin of all things does not include an origin for GOOD.  Therefore, there are no origination standards by which life ought to be lived.  The "love of money" / avarice is a symptom of all kinds of allowable lusts.




Where do you get these incredible lies?  Do you even have a clue where and how humanism originated?  Do you even have a clue what it is?


I'll give you some help on the first one:  humanism began with devout men of God.


BTW, your assertion about "standards by which life ought to be lived" is utterly false.  It's an invention by small-minded people too lazy to try to understand anything but their own self-righteousness.  Try reading Aristotle; that's enough to show how false the claim is.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 1:58AM #307
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 4, 2015 -- 1:21AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Mar 4, 2015 -- 1:06AM, Roymond wrote:



iama: The words recorded in The Bible are there, because God-Holy Spirit WILLED that they be there!  It is His intention that those biblical words instruct humans regarding Himself, ourselves, history, the future, morality, etc.


Roymond: But YEC dogma refuses God's instruction.  It demands tha the Bible be something it isn't, and refuses to ask what God really said.  God the Holy Spirit promted Moses to write the Creation accounts in Genesis, and Moses wrote them using a form of literature that proclaims a mighty accomplishment of a great king.  It is not a statement of history in any way we think of it.  It's almost a hymn of praise, arranged poetically using "days" as a topical framework, not as real days.


YECers think they know better than God, though, and force Moses' triumphant declaration of praise to be something like a play-by-play sports broadcast.


iama:   Consider a different approach to Genesis than what your education - "your so-called-higher learning" -  gave to you:


Roymond: Unlike YECers, I dpn't hold ignorance and arrogance to be virtues.


Or lying -- that article started off with a lie right up front in the second paragraph.



iama:  Quote the lie and explain why it is a lie.




"no-one interpreted Genesis this way until Arie Noordtzij in 1924"


Yes, they did -- in the second century, in the third century, in the fourth century . . . . all done by very devout and godly teachers of the church.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2015 - 12:27PM #308
MMarcoe
Posts: 20,907

Mar 3, 2015 -- 9:19PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 3:09PM, amcolph wrote:


iama: Maybe you should comprehend that I stand, solidly, upon the Genesis foundation as it was, originally, intended,



How do you know what was originally intended?



iama:  The Chinese Ancient Language records the same basic history which is recorded in Genesis up to the Tower of Babel:


The Fall of Adam and Eve is recorded in Genesis.


The Flood of Noah's time is recorded in Genesis


The Tower of Babel account, following The Flood of Noah's time is recorded in Genesis.


Isn't it interesting to you, amcolph, that the same account as is given in Genesis is ALSO RECORDED WITHIN THE ANCIENT CHINESE LANGUAGE.


Chinese: Language of God


This is a power point, so use the space bar to advance to the next frame.




As everybody knows, China had a flourishing civilization at the time your flood allegedly happened. No one recorded a flood then.


Complete, total, utter fundy lies passed on by you.





Moderated by Roymond on Mar 05, 2015 - 04:18PM
1. Extremists think that thinking means agreeing with them.
2. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.
3. God is the original nothingness of the universe.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2015 - 4:16PM #309
Roymond
Posts: 3,779

Mar 4, 2015 -- 12:27PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Mar 3, 2015 -- 9:19PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama: Maybe you should comprehend that I stand, solidly, upon the Genesis foundation as it was, originally, intended,



Amcolph: How do you know what was originally intended?



iama:  The Chinese Ancient Language records the same basic history which is recorded in Genesis up to the Tower of Babel:


The Fall of Adam and Eve is recorded in Genesis.


The Flood of Noah's time is recorded in Genesis


The Tower of Babel account, following The Flood of Noah's time is recorded in Genesis.


Isn't it interesting to you, amcolph, that the same account as is given in Genesis is ALSO RECORDED WITHIN THE ANCIENT CHINESE LANGUAGE.


Chinese: Language of God


This is a power point, so use the space bar to advance to the next frame.




As everybody knows, China had a flourishing civilization at the time your flood allegedly happened. No one recorded a flood then.


Complete, total, utter fundy lies passed on by you.




The connection between Chinese characters and the Genesis account appear fascinating.  But in order to give them credence, one has to also give Chinese history credence.  At that point, your note above is compelling:  if they want the Chinese characters to support Genesis in terms of the Creation, they have to throw out Noah's flood, because Chinese history knows of no such event at the YEC-specified time.

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