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Switch to Forum Live View Speculative Mental/Spiritual Phenomena
4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 10:58AM #1
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,074

This thread is for the discussion of psychics, mediums, astrologers, espers, gods, and other activities of the mind/spirit where science is unable to get traction.  


It is a frankly speculative thread so posts asking for proof or scientific support may be ignored. Anecdotal evidence is welcome, but please try to provide a bit of interpretation for the anecdote.  Not God is experienced, but this is how God is experienced.  




Skeptics are welcome to play, but a "better explanation" statement would be appreciated.   


 

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4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 11:05AM #2
Jcarlinbn
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May 16, 2010 -- 9:19PM, Blü wrote:

 If you have a better excellent summary [of consciousness research] to hand, grateful if you lay it on us. 


 If I had one I would.  The science is still barely in its infancy.  It was almost aborted by the skeptic crowd and Randi who declared that anything but the standard five senses was by definition either supernatural or magic.  Most of it was, but they intimidated research into neurosciences and consciousness research.  Partly by setting standards for success waaaaay to high.  


Esp as an example is an intensely emotional phenomenon.  The Rhine and PEAR studies have foundered on trying to produce results without the emotional content.  But ask an early pair bonded couple how they know it is the right pair, and all you get is a shrug.  We just know.  Ask teilhard how he knows God, and all you get is E-X-P-E-R-I-E-N-C-E.  Guess what?  He is telling the truth.  Science won't touch that with a double insulated 20 foot pole.   


Science is still afraid of esp it is a grant killer big time.  People on the periphery will earnestly try to find "rational" explanations for obvious esp phenomena like the dog knowing when master is getting off the bus a block away, or how a school of fish avoid a predator.  Or how a quintet synchronizes everything they do including the emotional content of the music even if the pianist is blind.  I was at a concert last night where a chamber choir performed an extremely difficult new music piece commissioned just last year.  The choir was scattered around the stage in no apparent order with at least 6 ft. spacing between singers.  How they held it together was either God, esp, or magic.  I will bet on esp. 


It is only recently that the kinesthetic senses are being investigated, although gymnasts, pianists, and dancers have known about them almost as long as they have been doing their thing.  Ask a pianist how they play an Ab minor arpeggio and they look at you funny and say what do you mean how? You just play it.  I recently found out I have a muscle memory disability.  I have known about it since I took typing in high school, but everybody said I was just stupid.  It is easier to say stupid, than research a tenuous phenomenon


If I sound bitter, it is because I had a very frustrating childhood,  I could do anything physically as long as it was one thing at a time.  40 WPM no mistakes first week in typing class.  But I still can't type my name without doing it one letter at a time. Stupid, lazy, careless, just some of the names used instead of disability.  I finally figured it out for myself, after crashing routinely on a double back with a full twist.  It was one too many things to do in the time I had to do it, and the muscle memory wasn't there to help.  30 years later science caught up.  No esp there, that is a different subject.  Just a different brain function.  And science wouldn't touch it.    



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4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 11:13AM #3
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,074

May 17, 2010 -- 3:50PM, williejhonlo wrote:

 Hey J, What do you think of psychics and mediums? I've always thought Edgar Cayce was a very interesting fellow.



As a general rule, I find psychics of the "mind reading" type to be able to detect emotional content in the marks mind.  What they do with it is heavily influenced by marketing and ethical considerations.  The best of them act as friend surrogates.  The difference is that you don't have to "let your hair down" and tell them your feelings, they can sense them directly.  


There are also psychic manipulators.  That is people who can influence emotional reactions in others.  I think this is a necessary ability for preachers, salespeople, barkers, and other pitchmen.  It is useful to be aware of this when you are buying a car, clothes or a church.  Most of us with the ability use it responsibility in the sense of making people feel good about themselves and their purchase, we would go broke if we didn't.  


As an interesting data point I can play a psychic like a fiddle, just by controlling what I am feeling.  The synergy between a manipulator and a reader is an interesting phenomenon.  


I have long been interested in the suspension of disbelief, that is releasing mental blocks to emotional manipulation which we all seem to have, for a variety of reasons, and recently have been exploring the idea of a group emotional unity in music and religious situations.  This seems to be a natural function of children under 3, see Suzuki music programs, using rhythm and percussion to generate the feeling of unity.  


Recent experiments on synchronization of brain waves in a musical performance by two previously unacquainted musicians provide a tantalizing hint on how this might work on a larger scale.  I find no believable explanation for the synchronization of a group of musicians other that a collective feeling for the music that they are performing.  At some size point it seems a strong unifier in the person of the maestro is necessary, but in smaller groups the collective feeling seems to be generated by the group.  It is as if all are listening to the same recording and playing along,  except of course they are making the "recording."  


Oh, yeah. mediums are less ethical psychics, feeding back emotional feelings about the deceased to the living.   


 


 


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4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 11:36AM #4
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

 


One way to "experience" God is through compassion.  I am currently reading a book, How God Changes Your Brain, by Andrew Newberg, M.D. and Mark Robert Waldman.  The book is basically about compassion.


"Compassion appears to be an evolutionary adaptive process, and our neurological heart appears to be in the anterior cingulate, a very small structure that sits at the center of an important communication junction between the frontal lobe (which initiates our thoughts and behaviors) and the limbic system (which processes a wide range of feelings and emotions).  It helps to maintain a delicate balance between our feelings and our thoughts, and is the newest part in the evolutionary history of the brain.  If you have a larger or more active anterior cingulate, you may experience greater empathy."


Meditation and prayer are spiritual practices that help us to become less hostile and greedy and feel more compassion.  


The greatest enemy to humanity is ANGER.  

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4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 1:32PM #5
teilhard
Posts: 51,525

In my own Experience -- as a Human Being, as a Person of Faith, as an Ordained Clergy, as a Student of Religion and Theology and Culture, as a Participant in Ecumenical Relationships, as one who WORSHIPS and seeks to serve "God" -- I am DEEPLY Personally aware that There IS a "There" there, Who is distinctly "Numinous" ...


One of my own Favorite Students, who "gets" it WONDERFULLY well, once told me, "You're a 'Shaman' ... !!! You know that The Stories aren't LITERALLY True, but you know how to USE Them ... "


It's like THAT ...

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4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 9:57PM #6
Blü
Posts: 25,094

teilhard


Once again you assert the experience without describing it.


Very unhelpful.


 

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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 12:51PM #7
teilhard
Posts: 51,525

"Pearls ... " you see ... I'm careful with whom I share them ...


May 18, 2010 -- 9:57PM, Blü wrote:


teilhard


Once again you assert the experience without describing it.


Very unhelpful.


 




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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 7:05PM #8
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

 


The mystical experience for me was most sensuous.   I have no idea how those that practice celibacy can stand it while having a "mystical" experience.  If I had been a nun I would have been in serious trouble during this time.

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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 7:07PM #9
teilhard
Posts: 51,525

Probably not ...


See: St. Teresa of Avila ...


May 19, 2010 -- 7:05PM, Wendyness wrote:


 


The mystical experience for me was most sensuous.   I have no idea how those that practice celibacy can stand it while having a "mystical" experience.  If I had been a nun I would have been in serious trouble during this time.





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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 7:19PM #10
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

May 19, 2010 -- 7:07PM, teilhard wrote:


Probably not ...


See: St. Teresa of Avila ...


May 19, 2010 -- 7:05PM, Wendyness wrote:


 


The mystical experience for me was most sensuous.   I have no idea how those that practice celibacy can stand it while having a "mystical" experience.  If I had been a nun I would have been in serious trouble during this time.









Teilhard,


My husband was definitely mystified by my experience.  There is no doubt in his mind that something very "unusual" was happening to me and he was reaping the rewards.  I even told him I had no idea what is going on with me but it had nothing to do with him, thank God I was married while it was happening.

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