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Switch to Forum Live View Social construction of reality
4 years ago  ::  May 18, 2010 - 9:52PM #11
Blü
Posts: 24,924

KW

I'd say we're born equipped to perceive and interpret the external world in particular ways and we therefore perceive it and interpret it in those ways.

We don't interpret our perceptions on our own. When we're tiny, we interpret them first as our mother figure directs us, and then as our immediate social group (whom we instinctively imitate) informs us.

As for women in repressive societies (certain African tribes, Roman Catholicism and various protestant sects, certain Muslim communities &c), what they take to be unchangeable and what they take to be changeable will depend on a lot of genetic and social factors, not least education.

I don't think the philosophical answers suggested here are helpful.   They're indeed gobbledegooky.


I think the relevant questions are to be carefully defined and then answered by research.

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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 11:23AM #12
Kwinters
Posts: 21,940

May 18, 2010 -- 9:52PM, Blü wrote:


KW

I'd say we're born equipped to perceive and interpret the external world in particular ways and we therefore perceive it and interpret it in those ways.

We don't interpret our perceptions on our own. When we're tiny, we interpret them first as our mother figure directs us, and then as our immediate social group (whom we instinctively imitate) informs us.

As for women in repressive societies (certain African tribes, Roman Catholicism and various protestant sects, certain Muslim communities &c), what they take to be unchangeable and what they take to be changeable will depend on a lot of genetic and social factors, not least education.

I don't think the philosophical answers suggested here are helpful.   They're indeed gobbledegooky.


I think the relevant questions are to be carefully defined and then answered by research.





 


And how would you investigate patriarchy?


And how would someone who approved of patriarchy investiage patriarchy?


And how would we know which of those two investigations were 'more' 'right' than the other?



Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 4:49PM #13
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,049

Why should I care about your and wiki's useless straw about idealism.  It died with God and Descartes.  


There is clearly a distinction between observable reality, and the symbolic realm of ideas created by (material) human minds, either our own or others.  If the ideas of ourselves and others cannot be defined by idealism then you had better invent a new word that encompasses made up things like fictional characters, mythical beasts, gods, monsters, and the symbols commonly called words that convey the descriptions and actions of these characters.   


May 18, 2010 -- 1:35PM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

 I am afraid you have a rather naive notion of what idealism (see at Wikipedia) is about (something like "what has clearly and only 'existence' in out thoughts" ... which, of course are the product of our very material brains)


MdS





Jcarlinbn, community moderator
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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 5:23PM #14
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,049

One does not investigate social phenomena.  The best one can do is observe, and perhaps make judgments on whether one wishes to incorporate that social phenomenon in an ideal society that one chooses for one's own.  


Like it or not patriarchy is.  At least in many social structures.  For those within those structures patriarchy has benefits and those benefits outweigh the costs of leaving the society.  That is realistically the only choice for those within a strong and stable social structure.  Whether those benefits will provide competitive advantages in a modern cosmopolitan world is a different question that only evolution can answer.


I think that patriarchy will fail simply because in a knowledge based world, eliminating half the brain power of the society will make the society uncompetitive.  There is nothing that an investigator can do to affect the outcome in any way.   


May 19, 2010 -- 11:23AM, Kwinters wrote:

And how would you investigate patriarchy?


And how would someone who approved of patriarchy investiage patriarchy?


And how would we know which of those two investigations were 'more' 'right' than the other?







Jcarlinbn, community moderator
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4 years ago  ::  May 19, 2010 - 9:16PM #15
Blü
Posts: 24,924

KW

The question isn't how you investigate patriarchy.  You can read lots of descriptions of patriarchy and its mechanisms, lots of books on the experience, the benefits, the problems, the whatever of patriarchy.

The question is, what qualities of humans allow some parties in a culture to dominate others?  Not simply what are are the mechanisms of control, but why do they work?

A lot of work on eg the psychology of infant development, and of the peck order, and on techniques of manipulation, &c has been done.  For questions such as the one you ask, the first thing is to define the substantial and specific question you want answered, and if it's already been answered, digest the answer.  If it hasn't, bring the necessary research to bear.


It's just the first rule of management: what are we trying to do here?


 

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