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Switch to Forum Live View Belief of "No Free Will" leads to increased unethical behavior
4 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2010 - 11:35AM #51
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,036

Apr 21, 2010 -- 6:30AM, Don't_Be_Captious wrote:

I disagree with your initial sentence about this thread, but I largely agree with everything else you say. 


Don't Be Captious. 


Don't Be Sensitive.  


Free will as used in the experiment and by extension this thread is a religious concept.  That you don't believe in it or are using it as a straw man is immaterial.  The (experimental design) gods created a rule "don't cheat" and played with the religious belief of free will to condition the subjects.  If they had used the sentence "Rules are bullshit, as all scientists agree" as their action program, I am sure they would have seen similar results.   


 

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 9:50AM #52
newchurchguy
Posts: 3,585

Apr 21, 2010 -- 11:35AM, Jcarlinbn wrote:


Apr 21, 2010 -- 6:30AM, Don't_Be_Captious wrote:

I disagree with your initial sentence about this thread, but I largely agree with everything else you say. 


Don't Be Captious. 


Don't Be Sensitive.  


Free will as used in the experiment and by extension this thread is a religious concept.  That you don't believe in it or are using it as a straw man is immaterial.  The (experimental design) gods created a rule "don't cheat" and played with the religious belief of free will to condition the subjects.  If they had used the sentence "Rules are bullshit, as all scientists agree" as their action program, I am sure they would have seen similar results.   




What is your defintion of a "religious concept" - that makes it sortable from a humanistic moral concept?    I think your are not being fair with DBC.


Free-will doesn't not have a source meaning dependent on a religion doctrine.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 10:12AM #53
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,036

Apr 23, 2010 -- 9:50AM, newchurchguy wrote:

What is your defintion of a "religious concept" - that makes it sortable from a humanistic moral concept?   


A religious concept contains dogmatic precepts that must be obeyed (or not depending on free will beliefs.) A humanistic moral concept is something that is complied with essentially because of a rational decision that it works.  There is no free will about it.  Either the moral concept is useful and is used or it isn't and is ignored.  


 

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 3:05PM #54
newchurchguy
Posts: 3,585

Apr 23, 2010 -- 10:12AM, Jcarlinbn wrote:


Apr 23, 2010 -- 9:50AM, newchurchguy wrote:

What is your defintion of a "religious concept" - that makes it sortable from a humanistic moral concept?   


A religious concept contains dogmatic precepts that must be obeyed (or not depending on free will beliefs.) A humanistic moral concept is something that is complied with essentially because of a rational decision that it works.  There is no free will about it.  Either the moral concept is useful and is used or it isn't and is ignored.  





I am unable to follow your distinction other than the term dogma.


How about the big picture - the 10 Laws offered by Moses - other than the "Sabbath - thing" which maybe a symbolic practice  --- the laws make sense in both domains.


Things like adultry - are strong examples as they do cause serious disorder, whether seen as religious or not.


Still - a humanist can see the benefit of regular retreats and or fasting - and hold it as a free-will practice.


Maybe I am just dense on this.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 4:45PM #55
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,036

Apr 23, 2010 -- 3:05PM, newchurchguy wrote:

Things like adultry - are strong examples as they do cause serious disorder, whether seen as religious or not.


"Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery." Thus Sayeth the Lord.  You have free will to commit adultery but The Lord will be pissed off.  


Adultery will injure my family and those I consider to be most important in my society by being a bad role model.  I cannot commit adultery and consider myself a moral member of my society. I have no choice in the matter.   


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 7:58PM #56
Blü
Posts: 24,861

j'carlin


I have no choice in the matter.


The law gives you various choices.  You can either move to a country that recognizes polygamy, or you can live with as many women as you like where you are, as long as only one of them's your wife.



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4 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2010 - 9:39PM #57
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,036

Apr 23, 2010 -- 7:58PM, Blü wrote:


j'carlin


I have no choice in the matter.


The law gives you various choices.  You can either move to a country that recognizes polygamy, or you can live with as many women as you like where you are, as long as only one of them's your wife. 


I was not referring to the law I was referring to the morality of the society of which I am a part.  It is not the USofA or even a state or municipality therein.  It is the society of intelligent, moral, rational, people who can identify with the tag Cosmopolitanism, see Appiah There are some variations on the concept of adultery in that larger society, but in the more local part that I live in adultery, and even serial monogamy, especially if there are small children involved is not considered to be a moral option.  


 

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