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Switch to Forum Live View Belief of "No Free Will" leads to increased unethical behavior
4 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2010 - 3:45AM #21
Namchuck
Posts: 11,657

Apr 15, 2010 -- 2:45PM, teilhard wrote:


"Subjectivity" CAN be MISTAKEN for -- foisted as -- "Objectivity," eh ... ???




 


Yes, subjectivity can often be "foisted as objectivity". One only has to study religion to see the truth of this.


Subjectivity is also no guarantee of truth, which is why within the paradigm of meritocratic rational enquiry every assumption about the world must work and be seen to work. It is right here that religion has always proved itself a dismal failure. There is nothing meritocratic about any of religions major assumptions.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2010 - 10:58AM #22
F1fan
Posts: 11,438

Apr 15, 2010 -- 7:07PM, teilhard wrote:


Apr 15, 2010 -- 6:53PM, Blü wrote:


ncg 


blu will say anything


You have the same problem as teilhard.  You're not interested in what's true in reality, only what supports your favorite stories.


 


LOL ...


Brother Blu mistakes HIS "Favorite Stories" ( "The Physical Sciences" ) for "Reality" ...




So you think the physical science don't describe reality.  What do you suppose does, your imagination?

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2010 - 12:22PM #23
teilhard
Posts: 51,182

Apr 16, 2010 -- 10:58AM, F1fan wrote:


Apr 15, 2010 -- 7:07PM, teilhard wrote:


Apr 15, 2010 -- 6:53PM, Blü wrote:


ncg 


blu will say anything


You have the same problem as teilhard.  You're not interested in what's true in reality, only what supports your favorite stories.


 


LOL ...


Brother Blu mistakes HIS "Favorite Stories" ( "The Physical Sciences" ) for "Reality" ...




So you think the physical science don't describe reality.  What do you suppose does, your imagination?




The Physical Sciences describe "Reality" within the LIMITS of The Physical Sciences ...


"Physics" and "Poetry," e.g., are EQUALLY Valid-Accurate-REAL Descriptions of "Reality," but they are Markedly DIFFERENT ...


"Experience" of "Reality" figures in, doesn't It ... ???

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2010 - 9:11PM #24
Blü
Posts: 24,966

teilhard


"Physics" and "Poetry," e.g., are  EQUALLY Valid-Accurate-REAL Descriptions of "Reality,"


Physics sets out to describe objective reality.


Other disciplines within reasoned enquiry - biology, brain physiology, neuropsychology, certain branches of philosophy &c - set out to describe and explain brain function including the riddle of subjective reality.


Poetry has a variety of uses - song with dance (rhythm), mnemonics, wisdom aphorisms, humor and so on.  One constant element across time is to employ words to evoke particular sets of emotional responses in the reader, for artistic rather than clinical purposes.  A reasoned enquiry into how the various varieties of poetry work would be an aspect of describing and explaining brain function.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2010 - 3:21AM #25
Merlin
Posts: 557

Apr 16, 2010 -- 10:58AM, F1fan wrote:


So you think the physical science don't describe reality.  What do you suppose does, your imagination?



The task of science is not to tell us how the universe is, but rather to see what can be said about it.

"May I always be the person my dog thinks I am."
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2010 - 3:29AM #26
Namchuck
Posts: 11,657

Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:21AM, Merlin wrote:


Apr 16, 2010 -- 10:58AM, F1fan wrote:


So you think the physical science don't describe reality.  What do you suppose does, your imagination?



The task of science is not to tell us how the universe is, but rather to see what can be said about it.




 


It is exactly the task of science to tell us how the universe is, and it is doing a tremendously good job of it, too.


When religion tries to tell us how the universe is, it invariably gets it wrong. For instance, not one religion over the thousands of years that it they've been extant ever got man's true historical context right.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2010 - 3:45AM #27
Merlin
Posts: 557

Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:29AM, Namchuck wrote:


It is exactly the task of science to tell us how the universe is, and it is doing a tremendously good job of it, too.


When religion tries to tell us how the universe is, it invariably gets it wrong. For instance, not one religion over the thousands of years that it they've been extant ever got man's true historical context right.



Sorry. I was just paraphrasing Neils Bohr.

"May I always be the person my dog thinks I am."
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2010 - 3:55AM #28
Namchuck
Posts: 11,657

Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:45AM, Merlin wrote:


Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:29AM, Namchuck wrote:


It is exactly the task of science to tell us how the universe is, and it is doing a tremendously good job of it, too.


When religion tries to tell us how the universe is, it invariably gets it wrong. For instance, not one religion over the thousands of years that it they've been extant ever got man's true historical context right.



Sorry. I was just paraphrasing Neils Bohr.




 


Bad job of paraphrasing.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2010 - 4:02AM #29
Merlin
Posts: 557

Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:55AM, Namchuck wrote:


Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:45AM, Merlin wrote:


Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:29AM, Namchuck wrote:


It is exactly the task of science to tell us how the universe is, and it is doing a tremendously good job of it, too.


When religion tries to tell us how the universe is, it invariably gets it wrong. For instance, not one religion over the thousands of years that it they've been extant ever got man's true historical context right.



Sorry. I was just paraphrasing Neils Bohr.




 


Bad job of paraphrasing.



Only because you disagree. Wink The exact quote is, "It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to  find out how Nature is. Physics concerns what we say about Nature." (I think my way of saying the same thing is more elegant Smile)

"May I always be the person my dog thinks I am."
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2010 - 6:01PM #30
Namchuck
Posts: 11,657

Apr 17, 2010 -- 4:02AM, Merlin wrote:


Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:55AM, Namchuck wrote:


Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:45AM, Merlin wrote:


Apr 17, 2010 -- 3:29AM, Namchuck wrote:


It is exactly the task of science to tell us how the universe is, and it is doing a tremendously good job of it, too.


When religion tries to tell us how the universe is, it invariably gets it wrong. For instance, not one religion over the thousands of years that it they've been extant ever got man's true historical context right.



Sorry. I was just paraphrasing Neils Bohr.




 


Bad job of paraphrasing.



Only because you disagree.  The exact quote is, "It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to  find out how Nature is. Physics concerns what we say about Nature." (I think my way of saying the same thing is more elegant )




Yes, I do disagree. I think it is the task of physics to find out how Nature is.

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