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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:28PM #21
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Christianlib wrote:


As an extension of this, I had an interesting juxtaposition of thoughts today.  On another board there is discussion of the problems in the Roman Catholic Church with priests molesting young people, and the cover ups that ensued.


In thinking of that, it occurred to me that Priestly Celibacy, in and ot itself, is not the point.  If it were, it could easily be achieved by the expedience of castration upon ordinatoin.  After all, if you have taken a vow that you will not use the equipment, you have no need to keep the equipment.  Nope.  The point is, the TEST of celibacy; the struggle, the fight.  AND, what good is passing a test if one cannot point with some disdain at others who were "weak" and failed the test?


By extension, the same conclusion can be drawn about the Fundamentalist (ALL Fundamentalists, protestant, Catholic, Islamic, etc.) contention that the nature of homosexuality is not a natural, inborn state, but a choice.  After all, the prideful and righteous Fundy MUST be able to see themselves as bravely and righteously CHOOSING to not be gay or lesbian, and thereby "passing", while, there MUST be an other who has "failed", and is therefore damned.  What good is being Saved if you can't view with a feeling of pity and contempt, those whom you feel are damned?




 


They are called "hypocrites".  Jesus had no tolerance of hypocrites.  We are taught that we must love our neighbors as ourselves, not just the neighbors that we approve of.  What is love without compassion?


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:29PM #22
teilhard
Posts: 52,197

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:26PM, Christianlib wrote:


What EVER you do, Fr. T., please do not "Bend Over and Let Me See You Shake a Tail Feather."



LOL ... Thank "God," THIS "Worm" lacks Tail Feathers ...

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:33PM #23
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:28PM, teilhard wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:09PM, Wendyness wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:00PM, Christianlib wrote:


Call it "the shadow", call it "de debil", call it Yin or Yang, whatever.  I simply call it being human.  Long before I got to be 62 yrs old, I had to come to terms with my own lack of perfection. In a personal case, it is important to be comfortable with oneself.  On an interpersonal level, the recognition of human "failings" means, for instance, that one must realize one loves his wife not "in spite of" her faults and foibles, but actually FOR those very characteristics.


Ceasing to judge oneself too harshly is the beginning of being able to resist judging others harshly.




Embracing our humanness, I find laughter is the best medicine, nothing better than a good laugh at oneself.


I have a girlfriend that went grocery shopping and in the morning put on the pair of jeans she had worn the day before, not realizing her panties from the day before were stuck in the leg of her jean.  Unbeknownst to her, as she is walking through the store, her panties fall out onto the floor. She is standing in line at the check out stand when a man approached her and said, I think these are yours.  She said she took one look at them and recognized them as hers, but........she lied and denied it.  She stayed flushed for days.   I still howl at her humiliation. 




What's even FUNNIER -- but possibly Tragically so -- is when that kindly helpful Fella had to EXPLAIN to his Significant Other WHOSE Panties those were in his pants pocket, and HOW he got hold of 'em ... !!!




Nope, when she denied they were hers he said okay and left them next to the check out stand for her to contemplate.  What's odd is he picked them up and tried to return them to the rightful owner.  Can you imagine, "I think these are yours"?  What man in his right mind would do that? 

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:36PM #24
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:28PM, Wendyness wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Christianlib wrote:


As an extension of this, I had an interesting juxtaposition of thoughts today.  On another board there is discussion of the problems in the Roman Catholic Church with priests molesting young people, and the cover ups that ensued.


In thinking of that, it occurred to me that Priestly Celibacy, in and ot itself, is not the point.  If it were, it could easily be achieved by the expedience of castration upon ordinatoin.  After all, if you have taken a vow that you will not use the equipment, you have no need to keep the equipment.  Nope.  The point is, the TEST of celibacy; the struggle, the fight.  AND, what good is passing a test if one cannot point with some disdain at others who were "weak" and failed the test?


By extension, the same conclusion can be drawn about the Fundamentalist (ALL Fundamentalists, protestant, Catholic, Islamic, etc.) contention that the nature of homosexuality is not a natural, inborn state, but a choice.  After all, the prideful and righteous Fundy MUST be able to see themselves as bravely and righteously CHOOSING to not be gay or lesbian, and thereby "passing", while, there MUST be an other who has "failed", and is therefore damned.  What good is being Saved if you can't view with a feeling of pity and contempt, those whom you feel are damned?




 


They are called "hypocrites".  Jesus had no tolerance of hypocrites.  We are taught that we must love our neighbors as ourselves, not just the neighbors that we approve of.  What is love without compassion?


 


 




 I would tend to agree.  Also would note, even IF homosexuality is a sin (I don't see it as so), why do some need to consider it such a GREAT sin?  Jesus, as far as I can recall, never provided us with a hierarchy of sins.  He sort of counted them all together and all equal.  The hypocrites of whom we speak seem to want to magnify the sin of "the sodomites", while minimizing their own transgressions.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:39PM #25
teilhard
Posts: 52,197

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:33PM, Wendyness wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:28PM, teilhard wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:09PM, Wendyness wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:00PM, Christianlib wrote:


Call it "the shadow", call it "de debil", call it Yin or Yang, whatever.  I simply call it being human.  Long before I got to be 62 yrs old, I had to come to terms with my own lack of perfection. In a personal case, it is important to be comfortable with oneself.  On an interpersonal level, the recognition of human "failings" means, for instance, that one must realize one loves his wife not "in spite of" her faults and foibles, but actually FOR those very characteristics.


Ceasing to judge oneself too harshly is the beginning of being able to resist judging others harshly.




Embracing our humanness, I find laughter is the best medicine, nothing better than a good laugh at oneself.


I have a girlfriend that went grocery shopping and in the morning put on the pair of jeans she had worn the day before, not realizing her panties from the day before were stuck in the leg of her jean.  Unbeknownst to her, as she is walking through the store, her panties fall out onto the floor. She is standing in line at the check out stand when a man approached her and said, I think these are yours.  She said she took one look at them and recognized them as hers, but........she lied and denied it.  She stayed flushed for days.   I still howl at her humiliation. 




What's even FUNNIER -- but possibly Tragically so -- is when that kindly helpful Fella had to EXPLAIN to his Significant Other WHOSE Panties those were in his pants pocket, and HOW he got hold of 'em ... !!!




Nope, when she denied they were hers he said okay and left them next to the check out stand for her to contemplate.  What's odd is he picked them up and tried to return them to the rightful owner.  Can you imagine, "I think these are yours"?  What man in his right mind would do that? 




A fella who is Helpfully-at-the-moment UN-THINKING ... ???


( Perhaps a Grand-Pa Type Guy, who honestly-but-naively DOES lately see EVERY "chick" in a Grand-Fatherly Way ... ??? Naaaaaah ... A Dirty-Old-Man, maybe ... ??? )

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:46PM #26
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:36PM, Christianlib wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:28PM, Wendyness wrote:


Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Christianlib wrote:


As an extension of this, I had an interesting juxtaposition of thoughts today.  On another board there is discussion of the problems in the Roman Catholic Church with priests molesting young people, and the cover ups that ensued.


In thinking of that, it occurred to me that Priestly Celibacy, in and ot itself, is not the point.  If it were, it could easily be achieved by the expedience of castration upon ordinatoin.  After all, if you have taken a vow that you will not use the equipment, you have no need to keep the equipment.  Nope.  The point is, the TEST of celibacy; the struggle, the fight.  AND, what good is passing a test if one cannot point with some disdain at others who were "weak" and failed the test?


By extension, the same conclusion can be drawn about the Fundamentalist (ALL Fundamentalists, protestant, Catholic, Islamic, etc.) contention that the nature of homosexuality is not a natural, inborn state, but a choice.  After all, the prideful and righteous Fundy MUST be able to see themselves as bravely and righteously CHOOSING to not be gay or lesbian, and thereby "passing", while, there MUST be an other who has "failed", and is therefore damned.  What good is being Saved if you can't view with a feeling of pity and contempt, those whom you feel are damned?




 


They are called "hypocrites".  Jesus had no tolerance of hypocrites.  We are taught that we must love our neighbors as ourselves, not just the neighbors that we approve of.  What is love without compassion?


 


 




 I would tend to agree.  Also would note, even IF homosexuality is a sin (I don't see it as so), why do some need to consider it such a GREAT sin?  Jesus, as far as I can recall, never provided us with a hierarchy of sins.  He sort of counted them all together and all equal.  The hypocrites of whom we speak seem to want to magnify the sin of "the sodomites", while minimizing their own transgressions.




I think Jesus speaks of harming children as a pretty big sin.


"It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble"


Luke 17: 2

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:52PM #27
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

True, Jesus speaks of that.  BUT, I reiterate, He spoke of what he spoke of WHEN He spoke of it.


He NEVER gave a list, saying, "Ok, here it is, Worst to Least Harmful."


He did give a list of blessings, and a list of people to care for.  Given the vagaries of time and translation, probably not complete, but He was much more concerned with who we loved, forgave, and cared for than he was about religious legalisms.


All these ideas like "mortal sins" and "venal sins", etc. are human inventions and dogma.


 


(A side note:  I'm a bit of a Universalist.  I agree with Phillip Gulley.  If "Grace is Real", then all are saved--all--- by the Love of God and the Grace of God.  We don't get to make the choices or do the judging.)

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:57PM #28
Wendyness
Posts: 3,012

 


 


I can't answer for those that consider homosexuality a sin.  I think they are afraid it's contagious.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 2:58PM #29
teilhard
Posts: 52,197

Apr 9, 2010 -- 2:52PM, Christianlib wrote:


True, Jesus speaks of that.  BUT, I reiterate, He spoke of what he spoke of WHEN He spoke of it.


He NEVER gave a list, saying, "Ok, here it is, Worst to Least Harmful."


He did give a list of blessings, and a list of people to care for.  Given the vagaries of time and translation, probably not complete, but He was much more concerned with who we loved, forgave, and cared for than he was about religious legalisms.


All these ideas like "mortal sins" and "venal sins", etc. are human inventions and dogma.


 


(A side note:  I'm a bit of a Universalist.  I agree with Phillip Gulley.  If "Grace is Real", then all are saved--all--- by the Love of God and the Grace of God.  We don't get to make the choices or do the judging.)



Yeah ...


Even Guys-Who-Pick-Up-Strangers'-Panties-In-The-Cereal-Aisle are Saved by GRACE, or not at all ...

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2010 - 3:02PM #30
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

Two golfers are changing in the locker room.  One looks over, shocked, and asks his friend, "Since when have you be wearing a girdle?"


His friend answered, "Since my wife found it in my glove compartment."

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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