Post Reply
Page 1 of 11  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 11 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Non-realism about God
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 8:56AM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 21,908

I found a really interesting series of short discussions on philosophical topics (less than 15 min).  I thought this one was quite interesting. 


It would put belief in god on par with belief in 'justice' or 'democracy'.


Unfortunately when I put another link on the Discuss Christianity debate, all but perhaps one person responded without actually listening to the link and I got fed up of the stupid, completely off-topic answers using terms and interpretations of terms that were just irrelevant so I developed a series of questions to keep the discussion intellectually disciplined.


I did the same for this topic, and I repost the questions here;


 


 


cdn3.libsyn.com/philosophybites/Don_Cupi...


 


or try:


 


cdn3.libsyn.com/philosophybites/Don_Cupi...


 


1) What is non-realism? How does this relate to the notion that god does not exist independently of people's belief in him (sic)?


 


2) Why does the speaker think that we shouldn't assume that the world exists out there permanently and forever, independent from our interpretation?


 


3) Why does he think that the idea that god as existing 'out there' in the world, is wrong (min 2:35)?


 


4) What objection might Christians have in response, and what is Cupitt's response (min 3:38)?


 


5) Why does the human ability to build our worldview mean that we must abandon our late medieval Christian views, according to Cupitt?


 


6) Why does he think that 'what we mean by god' has become increasingly problematic (min 5:30)?


 


7) Why does he think our modern, critical thinking changes everything?


 


8) How does the Quaker phrase 'Kingdom phase' relate to Cupitt's view?


 


9) What is the speaker's objection to the metaphorical, poetic phrasing in the Bible?


 


10) Why does he think we should see god as the spiritual goal of life, but not as the ontological foundation of life?


 


11) How does Cupitt respond to the question of how can one ground Christian ethics on anything if there isn't a god 'out there'?


 


12) What does he offer as the basis of Christian ethics?


 


13) Does he think Jesus was a humanist? Why?


 


14) Why does he think that since the 20th century we can't look for external guarentees for anything in human life?


 


15) How does he defend himself from criticism of moral relativism?


 


16) How does he defend himself from criticism of being an atheism in disguise?


 


17) Why does he now think that god is life?

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 10:29AM #2
caduceus
Posts: 1,274

Hi KWinters
I would ask an additional question:
The ancients did not quibble about the existence of another world, it was for them a foregone conclusion - with a few notable exceptions of course.

The academic stance today seems to be the opposite.

I would ask, what tools do we have today that the ancient did not, that have caused the shift in opinion?

Namaste
AL

“We live at the level of our language. Whatever we can articulate we can imagine or explore. All you have to do to educate a child is leave him alone and teach him to read. The rest is brainwashing.”
Ellen Gilcrist
Visit my website
www.n-atlantis.com
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 11:15AM #3
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Kwinters, just addressing one of your points... about modern critical thinking... the thing is that modern man has the ability to learn and explain so much about our world, its history, and its functioning that superstition of any sort becomes harder and harder to justify. Many of us who are scientists (and I'm one) and who are also 'believers', (and I'm one of those too) rationalize our belief in some higher power (in my case the Christian God...Jewish also... and I suppose Muslim though given what Muslims believe I'm not at all sure I want to be associated with them even remotely in a theological sense) by saying that something had to have caused everything. Now is that an over simplification or what?????


Anyway, I'm a firm 'believer' that science is about 'how' and religion is about 'why' and each should stay the hell out of each others bailiwick, (particularly true of religion... whenever religion argues with science guess who always ends up looking stupid... and it's NOT science!!!!!).


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 11:28AM #4
teilhard
Posts: 50,761

Mar 5, 2010 -- 11:15AM, rangerken wrote:


Kwinters, just addressing one of your points... about modern critical thinking... the thing is that modern man has the ability to learn and explain so much about our world, its history, and its functioning that superstition of any sort becomes harder and harder to justify. Many of us who are scientists (and I'm one) and who are also 'believers', (and I'm one of those too) rationalize our belief in some higher power (in my case the Christian God...Jewish also... and I suppose Muslim though given what Muslims believe I'm not at all sure I want to be associated with them even remotely in a theological sense) by saying that something had to have caused everything. Now is that an over simplification or what?????


Anyway, I'm a firm 'believer' that science is about 'how' and religion is about 'why' and each should stay the hell out of each others bailiwick, (particularly true of religion... whenever religion argues with science guess who always ends up looking stupid... and it's NOT science!!!!!).


Ken



... and in our hubris-chutzpah, SOME "Modern" Folks WAAAAY too easily label or dismiss EVERYTHING about "God" and "Religion" as mere "Superstition" ...

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 11:48AM #5
Kwinters
Posts: 21,908

Mar 5, 2010 -- 10:29AM, caduceus wrote:


Hi KWinters
I would ask an additional question:
The ancients did not quibble about the existence of another world, it was for them a foregone conclusion - with a few notable exceptions of course.

The academic stance today seems to be the opposite.

I would ask, what tools do we have today that the ancient did not, that have caused the shift in opinion?

Namaste
AL






 


OK and n.b. the question in the audio segment is answered with special reference to Plato.


 

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 11:52AM #6
Kwinters
Posts: 21,908

Mar 5, 2010 -- 11:15AM, rangerken wrote:


Kwinters, just addressing one of your points... about modern critical thinking... the thing is that modern man has the ability to learn and explain so much about our world, its history, and its functioning that superstition of any sort becomes harder and harder to justify. Many of us who are scientists (and I'm one) and who are also 'believers', (and I'm one of those too) rationalize our belief in some higher power (in my case the Christian God...Jewish also... and I suppose Muslim though given what Muslims believe I'm not at all sure I want to be associated with them even remotely in a theological sense) by saying that something had to have caused everything. Now is that an over simplification or what?????


Anyway, I'm a firm 'believer' that science is about 'how' and religion is about 'why' and each should stay the hell out of each others bailiwick, (particularly true of religion... whenever religion argues with science guess who always ends up looking stupid... and it's NOT science!!!!!).


Ken






 


I don't know if you've listened to the audio segment or not, but the speaker does give an explanation as to why he thinks that even scientific knowledge is not static and unchanging throughout time.


He sees our understanding of the world, morals, and god, as products of our temporal and cultural location, thus mutable and evolving.


 

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 11:55AM #7
amcolph
Posts: 17,354

Mar 5, 2010 -- 8:56AM, Kwinters wrote:


I found a really interesting series of short discussions on philosophical topics (less than 15 min).  I thought this one was quite interesting. 


It would put belief in god on par with belief in 'justice' or 'democracy'.


Unfortunately when I put another link on the Discuss Christianity debate, all but perhaps one person responded without actually listening to the link and I got fed up of the stupid, completely off-topic answers using terms and interpretations of terms that were just irrelevant so I developed a series of questions to keep the discussion intellectually disciplined.


I did the same for this topic, and I repost the questions here;


 


 


cdn3.libsyn.com/philosophybites/Don_Cupi...


 




That's a lot of questions, Dr. Winter--I still have no response but "yes."


There is a small "but,"  that there may indeed be some supernatural entity which is the cause of the universe and about which we have at present no reliable information.


However, I will reserve it until I get hold of this fellow's books.

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 12:04PM #8
amcolph
Posts: 17,354

Mar 5, 2010 -- 8:56AM, Kwinters wrote:


2) Why does the speaker think that we shouldn't assume that the world exists out there permanently and forever, independent from our interpretation?


 



I'm not sure he quite says that, although I may be reading my own nominalist point of view into his remarks.


 

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 12:06PM #9
teilhard
Posts: 50,761

Maybe Space and Time, Matter and Energy, History, Life, The Universe and Everything is a Dream in The Mind of "God" ...

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Mar 05, 2010 - 12:28PM #10
Kwinters
Posts: 21,908

Mar 5, 2010 -- 12:04PM, amcolph wrote:


Mar 5, 2010 -- 8:56AM, Kwinters wrote:


2) Why does the speaker think that we shouldn't assume that the world exists out there permanently and forever, independent from our interpretation?


 



I'm not sure he quite says that, although I may be reading my own nominalist point of view into his remarks.


 






That came from the exchange at 1:43


'..we can take realism for granted but  remember, our knowledge of the world, our vision of the world and our values are constantly being renegotiated in our conversation, constantly changes.


All scientific theory has a limited life, so we shouldn't suppose that the world exists 'out there' permanent and forever quite independent of our conversation....'


 

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 11  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 11 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook