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Switch to Forum Live View The Poison of Skepticism"
4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 2:50AM #111
exploringinside
Posts: 1,294

Jan 21, 2010 -- 12:41AM, 2bme wrote:


Jan 21, 2010 -- 12:24AM, exploringinside wrote:


Jan 20, 2010 -- 11:46PM, 2bme wrote:


 


As I said, my sources are older than Ken Wilber.  It wouldn't surprise that there are some similar ideas but do you read mention of simone Weil, Jacob Needleman, and Plato?  They all relate to ideas I associate with a form of esoteric Christianity that I know fairly well and feel a part of.


A lot of people are learning ideas from Ken Wilber that I discovered years ago like this vertical direction he describes through connected holons.


The point is that it is the psychology of this vertical direction or quality of the moment within which human meaning and purpose can be revealed




The ideologies, propositions and claims coming from Integral Life and you are identical; you like to copy quotes from Needleman, Weil and Plato; Wilber and his cadre of "partners" enjoy their own words which just happen to parrot Needlman, Weil and Plato. You and Integral Life can argue between you, who's first.


ILC has a large list of researchers and contributors in and to their institute, a claimed following of 1,000,000 members and readers, worldwide, 2 Colleges and about 1/2 billion in grants from the Moonies. What have you got????




Those aware of what Plato, Simone,  Professor Needleman, Basarab Nicolescu, and a minority of others are communicating.


I'm not knocking Ken Wilber.  I just prefer the balance between the mind and the heart my sources offer.




My Friend,


I'll accept what you give as an explanation and will not make a fuss about the "Connection to Ken Wilber and the Moonies." However, a few suggestions


Speak only for yourself - don't tell us what others say on your behalf...what's your opinion and why do you think as you do.....what are "your reasons" for "your thoughts" [we all can search quotes from authors].....what we can't do is "read your mind;" so, tell us what it is that you think!!!


If a quote is longer than one or two lines, link it


Debate or discuss using the proper forms and formats


Argument from Authority Scores minus Points - name-dropping buys no one an ounce of credibility, here


When questioned, respond with new facts.....repeating quotes or previously stated opinions is tedious and useless


Quit being so serious and have some fun......this is not "life nor death;" this is an intellectual play-pen for adults....enjoy the experience.


Just about everyone you meet here has spent most of their life figuring out what is "Right" in their opinion......introducing a discussion subject by essentially announcing that everyone not sharing you opinion is "Wrong" will eventually lead to you writing only to yourself and you will be the only responder.


If you think you've found intellectual Heaven, make the argument: Make a proposition; state your premises and get all your readers to agree to the truth/actuality of your premises. Carefully step through the inferences and deductions; state your conclusions in a way that leaves no doubt as to the correctness of your propositions.


If you don't want to do those things, go preach in the Discuss Religion Sections; and I'm sure that if the Mormons and Evangelical Christions reject you, the Taliban, Shites, and/or Sunnis, or the Somalia Pirates would "Love to Have You"...


 


 


 


 


[probably well-basted and slow-cooked, over a big fire while being strapped to an iron spit.] 


Laughing

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 10:34AM #112
2bme
Posts: 1,145

EI

 

You hit upon a very important point that I underestimated but should have known better as soon as I saw these pictures with angels and the artificial sweetness when one first enters the site. Its purpose seems to be perpetuating fantasy rather than revealing the human condition.

 

Quit being so serious and have some fun......this is not "life nor death;" this is an intellectual play-pen for adults....enjoy the experience.

 

This is it in a nutshell.  The most fun for an intellectual play pen comes from superficial complaints and ridicule.  It is natural if the problem isn't felt. Be superficial.

 

You do not recognize it but we are in a life and death situation which we don't want to confront so it is easier and more fun to go negative. Welcome to the reality of the human mind confronting the reality of its condition.  It fiddles while Rome burns.

 

Just about everyone you meet here has spent most of their life figuring out what is "Right" in their opinion......introducing a discussion subject by essentially announcing that everyone not sharing you opinion is "Wrong" will eventually lead to you writing only to yourself and you will be the only responder.

 

We have a lot of right thinking people destroying themselves all over the world. Some people question why it is so rather then just blame it on religion or women. I question the value of right thinking in relation to what happens.  Confronting the real reasons things happen is annoying and insulting.

 

My interest is in quality rather than quantity.  I'm looking to find those willing to confront the human condition  in the world and in themselves because it is important to do. I learn from these people  If we don't begin to understand why everything is as it is, we open ourselves as a species to catastrophic consequences

 

The usual clichés won't cut it.  Now is the time to get serious rather then just complain or offer platitudes. 

 

It seems that this board has become a place to do as you suggest.  I don't believe it yet.  I want to give it some time and see if anyone other than atheists are open to the question of religion and the human mind so as to promote questions such as the benefits of pondering in comparison to associative thought.

 

We shall see.  One thing I can assure you.  I have no desire to become content with either being a resident of la la land or a bitter complaining atheist.  I hope that those I quote and those I don't remain as an inspiration to search for something more meaningful then being contented with defending life in Plato's cave.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:25AM #113
Wendyness
Posts: 3,013
[/quote]


Blame what on WOMEN?  The destruction of the world?  When the world will value women as equally valuable as men it will be a different world.  As we speak there are 100 million women and girls missing globally due to gender discrimination. When the world wakes up to this, it will be a better world.  It was less than 100 years ago that women received the right to vote in America. This boggles my mind as a human being!  You want to change the world?  Integrate the patriarchal with the matriarchal.  As it stands, it is the patriarchal attitude that is destroying our world. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:29AM #114
teilhard
Posts: 48,396

Jan 21, 2010 -- 11:25AM, Wendyness wrote:




Blame what on WOMEN?  The destruction of the world?  When the world will value women as equally valuable as men it will be a different world.  As we speak there are 100 million women and girls missing globally due to gender discrimination. When the world wakes up to this, it will be a better world.  It was less than 100 years ago that women received the right to vote in America. This boggles my mind as a human being!  You want to change the world?  Integrate the patriarchal with the matriarchal.  As it stands, it is the patriarchal attitude that is destroying our world. 




MANY of my FAVORITE People are Women ...


It ISN'T "Women" who trouble The World so Deeply these Days


 -- it's PEOPLE ...

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:31AM #115
2bme
Posts: 1,145

Jan 21, 2010 -- 11:25AM, Wendyness wrote:




Blame what on WOMEN?  The destruction of the world?  When the world will value women as equally valuable as men it will be a different world.  As we speak there are 100 million women and girls missing globally due to gender discrimination. When the world wakes up to this, it will be a better world.  It was less than 100 years ago that women received the right to vote in America. This boggles my mind as a human being!  You want to change the world?  Integrate the patriarchal with the matriarchal.  As it stands, it is the patriarchal attitude that is destroying our world. 




Wendy, we all have our favorite scapegoats on which to place blame.  It protects us from looking at ourselves. That is why no home is complete without a dog.  When a suspicious odor arises we can all look down at this innocent creature more than happy to accept blame.


Placing blame has become a refined art in the modern world.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:33AM #116
Wendyness
Posts: 3,013
[/quote]


Blame is just a transfer of SHAME.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:41AM #117
teilhard
Posts: 48,396

Jan 21, 2010 -- 11:33AM, Wendyness wrote:




Blame is just a transfer of SHAME.




 


It has ALWAYS been that Way, hasn't it ... ???


 


"It's all really YOUR Fault, God ... !!!  The Woman -- whom YOU Created --


gave me some of The Fruit -- which YOU created -- and I ate it.


The Serpent --which YOU created -- tricked us BOTH ... !!!"


 -- Genesis 3:1-13


 


"I'm MELTING ... MELTING ... !!! Oh!! What a World, what a World ... !!!"


 -- The ( Female ) Wicked Witch of The West

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:49AM #118
Wendyness
Posts: 3,013

Teilhard,


 


As I've said, it is a patriarchal world.  It would be a better world if men and women realized that God is also a SHE.  

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 11:58AM #119
teilhard
Posts: 48,396

Jan 21, 2010 -- 11:49AM, Wendyness wrote:


Teilhard,


 


As I've said, it is a patriarchal world.  It would be a better world if men and women realized that God is also a SHE.  




 


I agree ...


"We REACH ... !!!"


 -- that "Hippie" Guy in that "Star Trek" Episode

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2010 - 5:18PM #120
exploringinside
Posts: 1,294

Jan 21, 2010 -- 10:34AM, 2bme wrote:


EI


 


You hit upon a very important point that I underestimated but should have known better as soon as I saw these pictures with angels and the artificial sweetness when one first enters the site. Its purpose seems to be perpetuating fantasy rather than revealing the human condition.


 


You do not recognize it but we are in a life and death situation which we don't want to confront so it is easier and more fun to go negative. Welcome to the reality of the human mind confronting the reality of its condition.  It fiddles while Rome burns.



 


The continual lament concerning the contrived "human condition" is your problem and it is not ours. Most humans simply live each day tending to their survival and safety needs; occasionally, they may enjoy a little "love and belonging" but for most people, famine, poverty, disease, overcrowding, living under the thumb of tyrants and the occasional natural disaster make the first two needs problematical, much of the time. You feel a great urge to save people; teaching them your philosophy is worth less than the dirt they must eat when they have no food!!!


 


You _____ Gurus want people to be "happy" in their misery; why not start to spend your great energy helping to fix the real causes of their misery and it is not the "Human Condition"!!!!! It is the reality and consequences of your failed philosophies that cripple humans....get out of their way and let them be human, once and for all. The human spirit is strong enough to overcome anything when it is free to act rationally; remove your "philosophies of irrationality, negativity and sacrifice;" let us be free of you!!


 


 


Jan 21, 2010 -- 10:34AM, 2bme wrote:


 


I want to give it some time and see if anyone other than atheists are open to the question of religion and the human mind so as to promote questions such as the benefits of pondering in comparison to associative thought.


 


We shall see.  One thing I can assure you.  I have no desire to become content with either being a resident of la la land or a bitter complaining atheist.  I hope that those I quote and those I don't remain as an inspiration to search for something more meaningful then being contented with defending life in Plato's cave.




Nick: I do not hate you as a person nor anyone else for that matter. I despise your ideas but also realize your ideas could change in a period of time that is much less than it took to form them.


I am deeply disturbed and saddened by what I have seen lately involving The Moonies and their money, the Integral Life Organization, the Internatinal Religious Federation and other things.  Their quest for Nirvana on Earth can only cripple what must be done to end the stupidity of Collectivism and tyrany; and no offense meant, but your "handwringing" and "squeaking" are the least of our real worries.


 And as far as "bitter complaining Atheists" go, you my friend, are the only whining, complainer I've seen and the last thing I would eveer do is disgrace the other Atheist Camp by ever includsing you in it.

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