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Switch to Forum Live View Anselm's self-thinking delusion
5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 4:19PM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 21,144

From the New York Times:


happydays.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/t...


'...All the other proofs he [Anselm] knew depended on observations about the world: the order of nature and the physics of cause and effect. Anselm, instead, gunned straight for the dream of the Greek philosophers: a God of pure, abstract reason, a secret God of the inner life, which the wise can recognize everywhere they go, sufficient onto itself. Aristotle called it the self-thinking thought.


The proof, which would come to be called the ontological argument, purports to demonstrate the existence of God from ideas alone: the concept of a God that doesn't exist wouldn't be much of a God. A true concept of God, "a being than which nothing greater can be conceived," would have to be a God that exists. Therefore, God exists.


 


...I let the rapture in his proof take hold of me. For passing moments, lying on my back with the book in my hands, I came to sense the whole enormity of a God wrapped around my little mind, like a lonesome asteroid must feel touching the gentle infinity of space. Then, always, my mind wandered elsewhere and I forgot some movement of the logic. The whole thing dissolved away, along with the sense of certainty. I started to remember the echo of Kant's devastating complaint against Anselm: existence is not a predicate. God seemed to disappear.


 


****


A reminder of the empty things we cling to when reality does not produce what we long to be true!

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 6:08PM #2
Crowhed
Posts: 1,625

Aug 24, 2009 -- 4:19PM, Kwinters wrote:


. . . the concept of a God that doesn't exist wouldn't be much of a God. . .




 


That made me chuckle.

“We are all without god – some of us just happen to be aware of it.” Monica Salcedo (Does anyone know who this is?)
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 7:34PM #3
teilhard
Posts: 50,115

St. Anselm of Canterbury


DIED in 1103 C.E.,


but "God" is STILL around ...


 


So ...

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2009 - 3:45AM #4
Blü
Posts: 24,699

Anselm's argument was based on Plato's views - ideas and concepts, or ideal forms of them anyway, float around on fuzzy pink clouds in Platoland.  Since Plato conceived such forms to be real, this allowed Anselm to argue that since we have the idea of God optimus maximusque &c, it follows that God is real ie exists in Platoland.


Since we know Platoland's imaginary, St Anselm's argument shouldn't detain us.  Nor should other appeals to magic.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2009 - 3:52PM #5
teilhard
Posts: 50,115

For a GOOD -- but DIFFICULT -- Reading,


see:


"Anselm's Discovery,"


by Charles Hartshorne ...

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 25, 2009 - 9:14PM #6
TransJ
Posts: 732

 


Hmm, the logical possibility of God.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 8:16PM #7
teilhard
Posts: 50,115

Aug 25, 2009 -- 9:14PM, TransJ wrote:


 


Hmm, the logical possibility of God.




 


Why not ... ???

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 9:30PM #8
Blü
Posts: 24,699

teilhard


Which god do you have in mind?  Logically, that is?

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 12:17AM #9
TransJ
Posts: 732

Aug 31, 2009 -- 8:16PM, teilhard wrote:


Aug 25, 2009 -- 9:14PM, TransJ wrote:


 


Hmm, the logical possibility of God.




 


Why not ... ???





Indeed is there a logical reason or no possibility of God?

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 6:08AM #10
Blü
Posts: 24,699

teilhard


There are no absolute statements.  Hence we can't rule out the existence of supernatural beings or giant English-speaking mice with hands instead of forepaws - we can just observe that on what we know, their existence in reality is very unlikely.


I thought you knew that.

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