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Switch to Forum Live View The error of mind-body dualism
4 years ago  ::  May 29, 2010 - 1:17PM #371
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,710

May 28, 2010 -- 9:06PM, Blü wrote:


Willie


Expressions of minds


More accurately, physical expressions of brains.  What else could 'expressions of minds' mean?



To me blu there seems to be a coditioning factor in nature. This conditioning comes about by association. We seem to develop other peoples quality traits by long association. This seems to be a very subtle phenomena beyond mathematical expression.

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4 years ago  ::  May 29, 2010 - 8:28PM #372
Blü
Posts: 24,971

Willie


To me blu there seems to be a coditioning factor in nature. This  conditioning comes about by association. We seem to develop other  peoples quality traits by long association. This seems to be a very  subtle phenomena beyond mathematical expression.


Very young children begin by copying - gestures, expressions, sounds &c.  Males and females continue to learn throughout life by copying - by being shown how.  That applies not only to how to hold a hammer or mix a cake, or dance, or sing, but also how to interact with peers, authority, and unknown groups, and a long list of social behaviors including table manners.


Moreover we're genetically equipped to anticipate what's happening.  That's why (for instance) some people are always finishing other people's sentences in conversation - the listener's brain is tracking and anticipating where the speaker's words will go.  When we associate regularly with particular people eg our partners, those involved become more able through experience to anticipate, interpret, and so on.


The hypothesis is that 'mirror neurons' are involved.  We know that other primates have them as well as humans, and that they facilitate imitation.


It's all explicable in physical terms.


And you've yet to say what else it could be.  'Something else' doesn't answer that question.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2010 - 1:38PM #373
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,710

I'm not talking about copying behavior such as when you were a child. I'm talking about conditioning that takes place when we want to fit into the group. Like how a good kid who comes from a good family can come under the influence of the wrong crowd and develop bad qualities and habits.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2010 - 1:59PM #374
Jcarlinbn
Posts: 7,059

No mysticism or dualistic influences here.  Humans are social animals and will comply with the social requirements of whatever group they find themselves in see Stockholm Syndrome or Patty Hurst.  This is in part self preservation.  For the 12000 years modern humans have been around banishment or ex-communication from the group has generally been a death sentence.  It is a recent phenomenon for individuals to have multiple group memberships and loyalties.  Conflicting mores are resolved by awareness of differences and choosing compliance usually, or subtle non-compliance if necessary for self-respect.  


 


Jun 1, 2010 -- 1:38PM, williejhonlo wrote:

I'm talking about conditioning that takes place when we want to fit into the group. Like how a good kid who comes from a good family can come under the influence of the wrong crowd and develop bad qualities and habits.




Jcarlinbn, community moderator
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2010 - 7:50PM #375
Blü
Posts: 24,971

Willie


What J'Carlin said.


And you've yet to tell us what 'something else' is.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2010 - 12:25PM #376
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,710

Jun 1, 2010 -- 1:59PM, Jcarlinbn wrote:


No mysticism or dualistic influences here.  Humans are social animals and will comply with the social requirements of whatever group they find themselves in see Stockholm Syndrome or Patty Hurst.  This is in part self preservation.  For the 12000 years modern humans have been around banishment or ex-communication from the group has generally been a death sentence.  It is a recent phenomenon for individuals to have multiple group memberships and loyalties.  Conflicting mores are resolved by awareness of differences and choosing compliance usually, or subtle non-compliance if necessary for self-respect.  


 


Jun 1, 2010 -- 1:38PM, williejhonlo wrote:

I'm talking about conditioning that takes place when we want to fit into the group. Like how a good kid who comes from a good family can come under the influence of the wrong crowd and develop bad qualities and habits.






True, we all want to fit into the group because we are social beings but i believe strong personalities exert influence over weak personalities when weak personalities lack strong convictions that can shield them from unscrupulous people. I think it is more a personality issue then neuron issue.

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