| 4 years ago :: Apr 27, 2009 - 11:26AM #1 | |
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"The bystander effect is a social psychological phenomenon in which individuals are less likely to offer help in an emergency situation when other people are present. The probability of help is inversely proportional to the number of bystanders. In other words, the greater the number of bystanders, the less likely it is that any one of them will help. ...The bystander effect was first demonstrated in the laboratory by John Darley and Bibb Latane in 1968.[3] These researchers launched a series of experiments that resulted in one of the strongest and most replicable effects in social psychology. In a typical experiment, the participant is either alone or among a group of other participants or confederates. An emergency situation is then staged — examples include smoke pouring from a vent in the room, a woman falling and becoming injured, a student having an epileptic seizure, etc. The researchers then measure how long it takes the participants to act, and whether or not they intervene at all. These experiments virtually always find that the presence of others inhibits helping, often by a large margin. Some associated concepts: deindividuation, social loafing, conformity... The "Bystander Effect" offers us many psycho-social implications to contemplate, including the pro-social aspects of evolutionary theory. Thoughts?
Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 27, 2009 - 12:00PM #2 | |
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I remember this from psychology classes. There are many theories that explain how the mind processes information of the immediate environment when making decisions. I think it was Blu who started a thread about how many decisions are made in the mind before they become conscious to the individual. Many decisions are made automatically and without deliberate thought or consideration. The bystander effect shows how people defer responsibility when there are many others around a given situation. An example would be that if you and a friend were eating and he/her began choking, you would be the only hope, and would attempt the Heimlich Maneuver because you saw it in a movie once. If you were in a crowded restaurant you might assume there was someone else who was more competent to help than you. You might yell "Is there a doctor in the house?" assuming you weren't worried about the cliche, but you probably wouldn't act. I don't see how this supports your title "evolving to extinction". If anything, bystanders are deferring to more competent help by not acting, thus increasing the chance that competent help steps in. |
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 7:17AM #3 | |
You can't be serious. Like "deferring to more competent help" in the Kitty Genovese case which precipitated the study of this phenomenon? Bystanders "deferred to more competent help" until her death. ETA: And, yes, I would act (and do) in emergency situations. I know people, however, who wouldn't and don't. What separates the actors from the bystanders?
Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 7:26AM #4 | |
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Why did you make this thread? What is your overarching point? (before I argue against you or what I think you're saying, then you claim I'm making a strawman) |
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 7:29AM #5 | |
LOL! Why do I have to have a point? Can't you just comment without knowing what my next "move" will be (if any?) :p
Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 9:58AM #6 | |
Of course the pro-social aspects of evolutionary theory relate to KIN, not to strangers. 'Evolutionary biology identifies four basic mechanisms to explain the evolution of cooperation in nature: (1) kin selection (or "inclusive fitness"), (2) cooperation for mutual advantage (or "byproduct mutualism"), (3) reciprocal altruism, and (4) group selection....'
- EVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY by Todd J. Zywicki See also: plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biol... and especially: plato.stanford.edu/entries/altruism-biol... 'Kin selection theory predicts that animals are more likely to behave altruistically towards their relatives than towards unrelated members of their species. Moreover, it predicts that the degree of altruism will be greater, the closer the relationship. In the years since Hamilton's theory was devised, these predictions have been amply confirmed by empirical work. For example, in various bird species, it has been found that 'helper' birds are much more likely to help relatives raise their young, than they are to help unrelated breeding pairs. Similarly, studies of Japanese macaques have shown that altruistic actions, such as defending others from attack, tend to be preferentially directed towards close kin. In most social insect species, a peculiarity of the genetic system known as 'haplodiploidy' means that females on average share more genes with their sisters than with their own offspring. So a female may well be able to get more genes into the next generation by helping the queen reproduce, hence increasing the number of sisters she will have, rather than by having offspring of her own. Kin selection theory therefore provides a neat explanation of how sterility in the social insects may have evolved by Darwinian means....'
It's fine to criticise theories, but you have to UNDERSTAND what they actually state FIRST.
One explanation which comes to mind is Olson's logic of collective action - the more people are responsible for something the less any one individual feels obliged to make a contribution. A perfect example of this is the phenomena of climate change and how any one individual can reduce their carbon footprint.
Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert
“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?” Dale Spender |
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 11:20AM #7 | |
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Adelphe: You can't be serious. Like "deferring to more competent help" in the Kitty Genovese case which precipitated the study of this phenomenon? Bystanders "deferred to more competent help" until her death. No, the deferment to more competent help was in reference to the example of a choking victim in a crowded restaurant. I didn't say that is the subconscious attitude in all cases. ETA: And, yes, I would act (and do) in emergency situations. I know people, however, who wouldn't and don't. What separates the actors from the bystanders? Well, awareness of this theory of behavior is one way yo override the subconscious. And like most behaviors, there are exceptions to the general trend. A person who is trained in emergency care WOULD likely step in and help a choking victim since that person is experienced and competent. You could read about the reasons for the bystander effect in various sources. I don't see how it backs up your title. |
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 12:42PM #8 | |
Oh, okay, it's like that. Now that I understand better... I think you're trying to say something along the lines of, "People behave like sheep when they're in crowds." Further, that, for example, atheists & scientists & people interested in science and/or atheism, esp. when they make arguments about the nonexistence of god, the material basis of consciousness, etc., are really just being sheep, following the cues of the cool kids, leading materialists & atheists around them. Which would be clearly ludicrous. If that's what you were saying. |
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 8:09PM #9 | |
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It's conditioning.
“We live at the level of our language. Whatever we can articulate we can imagine or explore. All you have to do to educate a child is leave him alone and teach him to read. The rest is brainwashing.”
Ellen Gilcrist Visit my website www.n-atlantis.com |
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| 4 years ago :: Apr 28, 2009 - 8:29PM #10 | |
It wouldn't just be atheists--it would also apply to religious congregations as well.
The emperor has no clothes, but I don't want to make a fool out of myself by pointing it out, so I'll just keep my eyes focused on his...
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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