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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 7:25AM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 22,889

For those who take a literal reading of the Bible:


1. How can you account for a world population of over 6 billion people in the time frame given, knowing what we know about how populations reproduce, and


2. How do you explain marsupials?


 


'The marsupial population of Australia contains animals found nowhere else on earth - not even in fossil form. Are we to suppose that those marsupials managed to travel from the landing place of Noah's ark to Australia? 


...This menagerie of wombats and koalas, bandicoots and kangaroos (not to mention the flightless moa and kiwi birds of New Zealand) had to keep ahead of lions-'n-tigers-'n-bears all the way to Indonesia, and then - although the superior placental mammals could not manage it - reach the continent of Australia.  As if this were not mind boggling enough, it turns out that the types of marsupials that made it to Australia just happened to form an ensemble able to fill all the ecological niches available! Thus, there were marsupial moles, ant-eaters, mice, grazers, carnivores, frugivores, etc. - not one of which can be found anywhere else in the world. 


If this highly diversified marsupial population evolved from one or a few primitive generalized marsupials that reached Australia millions of years before it separated from Indonesia (and before mammals had evolved), then this peculiar situation is understandable. But if all these creatures had to journey from Turkey to Australia as an ensemble, it is incredible beyond computation.


Note: Molecular biology and anatomy both demonstrate that, of living marsupial groups, koalas are most closely related to wombats. And both the living species and fossilized remains of koalas and wombats are found only in Australia. Did such fragile creatures as the platypus and the blind marsupial mole race across the land bridge to Australia quicker than the Malaysian tigers and other robust placentals?


 From Robert A. Moore, "The Impossible Voyage of Noah's Ark"

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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 1:06PM #2
McAtheist
Posts: 8,365
That sounds like an interesting book, KW. 

How much time would Noah et. al. had to go from boat to new human societies anyway?  Seems to me that Egypt had new Gods, new architecture, new langauge etc. almost immediately after (some would even say before and during) the flood. 

Another problem for Noah would be getting snakes across the oceans to the varioius places they need to go.  I don't think they are big ocean voyagers and they are not that fast on the ground either.    Come to think of it,  I doubt emu's are much for swimming either.

So, how do YECS asnwer these problems?
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 8:03PM #3
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,854
[QUOTE=KWinters;459718]For those who take a literal reading of the Bible:

1. How can you account for a world population of over 6 billion people in the time frame given, knowing what we know about how populations reproduce, and

2. How do you explain marsupials?


'The marsupial population of Australia contains animals found nowhere else on earth - not even in fossil form. Are we to suppose that those marsupials managed to travel from the landing place of Noah's ark to Australia?

..This menagerie of wombats and koalas, bandicoots and kangaroos (not to mention the flightless moa and kiwi birds of New Zealand) had to keep ahead of lions-'n-tigers-'n-bears all the way to Indonesia, and then - although the superior placental mammals could not manage it - reach the continent of Australia.

As if this were not mind boggling enough, it turns out that the types of marsupials that made it to Australia just happened to form an ensemble able to fill all the ecological niches available! Thus, there were marsupial moles, ant-eaters, mice, grazers, carnivores, frugivores, etc. - not one of which can be found anywhere else in the world.

If this highly diversified marsupial population evolved from one or a few primitive generalized marsupials that reached Australia millions of years before it separated from Indonesia (and before mammals had evolved), then this peculiar situation is understandable. But if all these creatures had to journey from Turkey to Australia as an ensemble, it is incredible beyond computation.

Note: Molecular biology and anatomy both demonstrate that, of living marsupial groups, koalas are most closely related to wombats. And both the living species and fossilized remains of koalas and wombats are found only in Australia. Did such fragile creatures as the platypus and the blind marsupial mole race across the land bridge to Australia quicker than the Malaysian tigers and other robust placentals?
[INDENT]
From Robert A. Moore, "The Impossible Voyage of Noah's Ark"
[/INDENT][/QUOTE]


Population studies have resulted in data which shows how today's population statistics are possible from post-Flood times until now.




The following articles contain data which refutes some of your above.



http://creationontheweb.com/images/pdfs … pter17.pdf

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/653

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/4892/


scroll down a ways on the following site:

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/1938/

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3519/

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/481

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3218

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/468
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 9:36PM #4
57
Posts: 24,474
Maybe KWinters could tell us how the marsupials pocket evolved.

What did those poor little kangaroos do when the pocket, well, really wasn't a pocket?

As far as the marsupials go, did you ever read this KWiners?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article … als-spread

I could present other links for you...but I doubt you'd really take the time to read this one.

But back to the pockets...Hmmmmmmmmmm
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 9:40PM #5
57
Posts: 24,474
Now, KWinters also asked about how the population grew to 6 billion after the flood.

well KW......check this out then get back to us.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creatio … people.asp

It seems as if KW's question has been settled for a long time.

Next question please.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2008 - 11:42PM #6
McAtheist
Posts: 8,365
I checked out a few of Iam's sites and the one 57 left and as is always the case with this crap, there isn't a single bit of science in any of them.

It is all apologetics.

"Maybe" this, or it "might" have happened this way.  But never a single bone or story of kangaroos any place but Australia.  Never any actual field work or lab work.  Just made-up crap, modern "just-so" stories.

And even after wading through the creationism apologetics BS, neither Iam or 57 answered KW's question of why Australia is the great land of marsupials, with so little competition there from placental animals.

So, Iam or 57, how did JUST the marsupials make it Australia and what prevented the more competitive placental animals from arriving at the same time and taking over?
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2008 - 12:16AM #7
charliejohn48
Posts: 415
Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 11:50AM #8
Ken
Posts: 33,859

57 wrote:

Maybe KWinters could tell us how the marsupials pocket evolved.

"Gee, I just can't figure out how a marsupial's pocket would have evolved. If I can't figure something out, that means God must have done it."

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7 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2008 - 7:12PM #9
zenman55
Posts: 471
[QUOTE=57;461064]Maybe KWinters could tell us how the marsupials pocket evolved.

What did those poor little kangaroos do when the pocket, well, really wasn't a pocket?

As far as the marsupials go, did you ever read this KWiners?

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article … als-spread

I could present other links for you...but I doubt you'd really take the time to read this one.

But back to the pockets...Hmmmmmmmmmm[/QUOTE]


Some monotremes, like the platypus, have no pouch. When one examines the reproductive cycle of kangaroos, one can quite easily see how it developed. There are plenty of scholarly articles on the subject.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o … 1e1651c6fb

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2460145

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1294363

I'm wondering why so many of your 'arguments' are based on what you don't know and that you assume nobody else does other? It seems a shaky position to defend.
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2008 - 7:30PM #10
caldron68
Posts: 53
The good folks over at AnswersInGenesis have been known to stretch the truth just a wee bit. If you want to see rebuttals for most of the claims made at the AIG site, try this one:

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/what's_new.htm

Cheers,
Caldron68
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