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Switch to Forum Live View Which belief is more egotistical?
7 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2008 - 5:52PM #1
sci-objectivist
Posts: 102
I've heard people describe atheism as the ultimate in an ego trip,replacing God with the individual self.But is this really accurate?Most religions I know of,especially the Abrahamic ones,place man's importance as "just a little lower than the angels",ascribing to God the title of "Heavenly Father".

Who is more egotistical?The one who believes his existence is due to an accident of physics,or the one who believes himself to be so important,that the creator of the universe stays busy making sure his life is spiritually happy and fulfilling?Which is more arrogant,the belief that the human being is no more special than a Hydrogen atom and that the earth is merely a tiny pebble in a vast cosmos,or the one who believes that man is created in the image of the creator and that the earth is the most important planet created in the universe?A belief that science has pretty much proven wrong,given the current models of earth's place within the rest of the cosmos.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 12:49AM #2
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,676
[QUOTE=sci-objectivist;323196]
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I've heard people describe atheism as the ultimate in an ego trip, replacing God with the individual self. But is this really accurate? Most religions I know of, especially the Abrahamic ones, place man's importance as "just a little lower than the angels", ascribing to God the title of "Heavenly Father".
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[/QUOTE]

I always want to know, "What is the truth?"

I know that I came into this physical-spiritual-spiritual reality through no effort of means of my own. 

I realize that I am a part of the CREATED Earth/Universe and "all that in them is."

I am not running the "show"!

The "truth" is that I was created via the created reproductive mechanism, procreation.

The "truth" is that I owe everything, all that I am, to my Creator-God.

So Who/who decides, ultimately?  Our Creator-God - Father-Son-Holy Spirit.


[QUOTE]
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Who is more egotistical?The one who believes his existence is due to an accident of physics, or the one who believes himself to be so important, that the creator of the universe stays busy making sure his life is spiritually happy and fulfilling? Which is more arrogant, the belief that the human being is no more special than a Hydrogen atom and that the earth is merely a tiny pebble in a vast cosmos, or the one who believes that man is created in the image of the creator and that the earth is the most important planet created in the universe? A belief that science has pretty much proven wrong, given the current models of earth's place within the rest of the cosmos.
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[/QUOTE]

Egotistical - the frequent use of the word 'I'

Ego - regarding everything in its relation to oneself


Which of the following, according to the Bible, is the TRUTH POSITION?


1. "There is a way that seems right unto a man."

- believes - his existence is due to an accident of physics

- believes - that the human being is no more special than a Hydrogen atom and that the earth is merely a tiny pebble in a vast cosmos

2. "In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth."

- believes - himself to be so important, that the Creator of the universe stays busy making sure his life is spiritually happy and fulfilling

- believes that man is created in the image of the creator and that the earth is the most important planet created in the universe?



[QUOTE]
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A belief that science has pretty much proven wrong, given the current models of earth's place within the rest of the cosmos.
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[/QUOTE]

"There is a way that SEEMS RIGHT unto a man...."

Humanism lifting up its created-creature physical-brain - the egotistical "I"!



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The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 12:27PM #3
AndyF
Posts: 375
Oh, I don't know...the "I'm right, you're wrong and evil and will go to hell while I party in heaven" spiel that I hear a lot always sounded pretty egotistical to me.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 12:49PM #4
mountain_man
Posts: 39,703

sci-objectivist wrote:

I've heard people describe atheism as the ultimate in an ego trip,replacing God with the individual self.But is this really accurate?


It's a strawman that theists need to apply in order to protect their god beliefs.

.....or the one who believes that man is created in the image of the creator and that the earth is the most important planet created in the universe?....


That one is the most self centered view. It seems awfully strange to me that some people actually believe that some omnipotent, omniscient, god out there actually cares what you eat or who you have sex with. If you take the god out of the equation by either evolution or placing the Sun at the center of the Universe instead of the Earth, then we (humanity) are no longer at the center of the Universe.

I like the way Carl Sagan puts it: "For most of human history we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Who are we? What are we? We find that we inhabit an insignificant planet of a hum-drum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

If humanity is at the center of attention, then we're special. If we're not, then we're nothing special. That's the difference between the believer and non believer. The non believers do not need a god in order to understand that we are special (but no more special than any other living creature on this planet).

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 3:26PM #5
isness
Posts: 315
Beautiful post Mountain Man!
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 4:19PM #6
Ken
Posts: 33,859

sci-objectivist wrote:

I've heard people describe atheism as the ultimate in an ego trip, replacing God with the individual self.

Atheism doesn't replace God with anything. There's no God place to be filled.

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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 8:37PM #7
mountain_man
Posts: 39,703

isness wrote:

Beautiful post Mountain Man!


Thank you.  :o

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2008 - 11:12PM #8
nicoletate
Posts: 3,398
[QUOTE=mountain_man;324931]It's a strawman that theists need to apply in order to protect their god beliefs.


That one is the most self centered view. It seems awfully strange to me that some people actually believe that some omnipotent, omniscient, god out there actually cares what you eat or who you have sex with. If you take the god out of the equation by either evolution or placing the Sun at the center of the Universe instead of the Earth, then we (humanity) are no longer at the center of the Universe.

I like the way Carl Sagan puts it: "For most of human history we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Who are we? What are we? We find that we inhabit an insignificant planet of a hum-drum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

If humanity is at the center of attention, then we're special. If we're not, then we're nothing special. That's the difference between the believer and non believer. The non believers do not need a god in order to understand that we are special (but no more special than any other living creature on this planet).[/QUOTE]

No other living creature on this planet, knows what elements exist on Venus, nor do they know what existence is, beyond naturally existing. Humans are not special simply based on the nature world, all living creatures are naturally special. But humans are a special part of existing, because we can explain how we came to exist. Based on that fact, in my opinion the difference between the believer and the non believer, is a matter of opinion, and how we view existence.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 1:04PM #9
exploringinside
Posts: 1,294
[QUOTE=sci-objectivist;323196]I've heard people describe atheism as the ultimate in an ego trip,replacing God with the individual self.But is this really accurate?Most religions I know of,especially the Abrahamic ones,place man's importance as "just a little lower than the angels",ascribing to God the title of "Heavenly Father".

Who is more egotistical?The one who believes his existence is due to an accident of physics,or the one who believes himself to be so important,that the creator of the universe stays busy making sure his life is spiritually happy and fulfilling?Which is more arrogant,the belief that the human being is no more special than a Hydrogen atom and that the earth is merely a tiny pebble in a vast cosmos,or the one who believes that man is created in the image of the creator and that the earth is the most important planet created in the universe?A belief that science has pretty much proven wrong,given the current models of earth's place within the rest of the cosmos.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps the words "egotistical" and "arrogant" might actually cloud the correct perspective. Ego/self are simply descriptive of the individual we recognize as being a person; we think of a person who is egotistical as being "overly self-absorbed," so consumed with self-consideration that they have little or no consideration for other people. This is quite the opposite message of most religions. Regardless of the status of humans ascribed relative to a Deity, most religions de-emphasize the value of the individual self and emphasize service to the Deity and others.

I believe that neither the theist or non-theist are necessarily egotistical and I find the typical theist to be striving for selflessness, sacrificing the self. In my opinion it is the self that must not be sacrificed.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2008 - 9:30PM #10
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,676
[QUOTE=exploringinside;327137].

I believe that neither the theist or non-theist are necessarily egotistical and I find the typical theist to be striving for selflessness, sacrificing the self. In my opinion it is the self that must not be sacrificed.
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[/QUOTE]

What power and authority does the "self" have with respect to eternity?

What value does the "self" have with respect to eternity? to whom?



.
The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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