| 5 years ago :: Dec 09, 2007 - 12:43AM #1 | |
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As you know by this time Beliefnet has [FONT=Times New Roman]"been acquired by Fox Entertainment Group, which is part of News Corp."[/FONT] This in not a criticism but an observation of what I believe must happen in matters of religious belief in the world as it is. In short, what I believe is the natural relationship between man on earth and higher consciousness must gradually deteriorate into imagination. We either adopt imaginary Gods or lose the inner feeling of the relationship and disbelieve. The result is a gradual reliance on materialism to try and fill the needs of the heart which feels the loss of its natural connection to the higher good. Of course material;ism cannot do it and society eventually crumbles through lack of united belief that the source of meaning transcends the level at which society lives. No amount of platitudes and imagination can satisfy real needs. First let me describe how a person can feel this need for the higher good. Simone Weil felt it when she was fourteen years old. Of course her purity is rare but I post it to give a vivid example of this need of the heart. [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]
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| 5 years ago :: Dec 09, 2007 - 11:57AM #2 | |
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I'm mostly indifferent to the Fox buyout... Nobody noticed that BeliefNet was a pretty merchantile business before? Honestly, because they kept doing joint ventures, I thought BeliefNet was owned by ABC, which is owned by Disney. (or was it NBC? CBS? Whatever)
I would be surprised if anything substantial changed around here. BeliefNet wasn't so pure to begin with. |
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| 5 years ago :: Dec 09, 2007 - 10:21PM #3 | |
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| 5 years ago :: Dec 10, 2007 - 3:52PM #4 | |
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'Higher consciousness' has never been demonstrated as an objective phenomenon. It's not even clear what the expression means nor how its advocates say it occurs nor what test will tell you whether you've achieved it or not.
The notion that belief in supernatural beings is essential for a moral life is baseless. It's the same tired nonsense that seeks to portray atheists as amoral sociopaths. I'm tired of it. The most materialistic swine I know are conservative Christians, and they are legion.[/QUOTE] BLU. __________________________________________ So, if a higher power does exist, do you think God will throw in the pit of hell, for just not believing, eventhough you lived an upright moral life and have a good loving heart? Personally I don't think so, but i'm not considered as a, "true Christain because of my differences of belief in God. Just like not all believers in the supernatural are alike, not all atheist are alike, there's swine in both parties. Since i've been a member of the beliefnet i've only come across a very few atheists that seem like amoral sociopaths that just don't seem to want a higher power to exist. There is a difference in simply wanting more understanding and evidence, then bashing the existence of a consciousness that may be the reason for existence. And you are quite right about most Christians, sometimes i'm a little confused as to what Jesus they were listening to. |
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| 5 years ago :: Dec 11, 2007 - 4:02AM #5 | |
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[QUOTE=Mike369;126451] As you know by this time Beliefnet has [FONT=Times New Roman]"been acquired by Fox Entertainment Group, which is part of News Corp."[/FONT]
This in not a criticism but an observation of what I believe must happen in matters of religious belief in the world as it is. In short, what I believe is the natural relationship between man on earth and higher consciousness must gradually deteriorate into imagination. We either adopt imaginary Gods or lose the inner feeling of the relationship and disbelieve. [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]It is natural then that Beliefnet should take the route of materialism since in its expansion it cannot provide depth if for no other reason then people have become less attracted to these quality ideas and acclimated to materialism. [/QUOTE] I was wondering what the responses might be to this very long and a little rambling initial post. Please excuse me if I must break this down to managable bites (the whole elephant will not fit on my fork.) It probably takes one to also read the included paragraph from a later portion of your article to make an initial connection with the idea that the purchase of Beliefnet will lead to the adoption of imaginary Gods. Anesis starts the Thread concerning Who Believes in God by presenting some statistical evidence indicating such belief continues to be prevalent. Is it your contention that such beliefs are primarily for imaginary Gods. Is there a standard you can offer so the rest of us can know when someone's beliefs in God are for the real or imaginary God? The last owners of Beliefnet sold it to make a profit, salvage their investment, realized their business model would not support the needs of an expanded usage, they got tired, they wanted a change or any other imaginable reason or combination of reasons. There is an illusion that somehow spiritually based media is free or cheap but these internet chat rooms that maintain many discussions for imediate viewing and input are expensive propositions. Waving the red flag of Materialism above the people who created, own and run Beliefnet at any time is likely an inaccurate characterization. [QUOTE=Mike369;126451] We either adopt imaginary Gods or lose the inner feeling of the relationship and disbelieve. The result is a gradual reliance on materialism to try and fill the needs of the heart which feels the loss of its natural connection to the higher good. Of course materialism cannot do it and society eventually crumbles through lack of united belief that the source of meaning transcends the level at which society lives. No amount of platitudes and imagination can satisfy real needs.[/QUOTE] Ah yes; whenever I feel myself spiritually deprived, I go shopping. Surrounding myself with material things, relieves the hunger for security, love and companionship. I've got all the pupose and meaning I'll ever need because I'm a consumer. Oh we know deep down that money can't buy happiness, but we'll keep trying to buy it just the same. And society eventually crumbles. [At this point, the background violins crescendo.] The real need is survival and all the monks and gurus who live on mountains, feeding the starving with spiritual platitudes, will not extend anyone's life even one minute. The politicising of excessive concern for material wealth ignores and obscures the real value of material wealth. In a very real sense, it is the cause and continuation of Beliefnet as a forum for ideas. [QUOTE=Mike369;126451] As Dan Fawcett, the president of Fox Digital Media, said in announcing the deal, "Beliefnet has garnered respect for its commitment to quality, editorial strength and unbiased approach to faith and spirituality from a broad range of consumers, religious and political leaders, journalists and advertisers. Fox Entertainment Group’s goal is to leverage these characteristics across a broader media canvas and provide programming, production, advertising sales, technology and marketing expertise that will enhance a terrific product." Notice how the need to believe as Simone felt it and Prof. Needleman describes is becoming secularized into a media expression that can be catered to through advertising and sales. I'm not saying this is bad but rather unavoidable as society itself is starved for ideas and the heart becomes hardened. It is rather a natural result of human nature.[/QUOTE] For the thousands that choose to share and learn new ideas through the venue of Beliefnet, I doubt that more than a few know who Dan Fawcett is and if they do know, are in any way concerned. If the banner ad for Pemco Insurance or the side ad for World Vision disturb your fears of rampant materialism, there are other forums where the advertising is less conspicuous. I cannot see through your eyes when you write and exchange on Beliefnet and yet charaterize society as "starving for ideas." Do you think some of us might actually derive pleasure exchanging here? Oh, that's right; it just couldn't be any fun because my heart is hardening. [QUOTE=Mike369;126451] But what of the next generation of young ones that will find only secular materialism and spiritual imagination leading to escapism? Will they be fortunate to discover the means and the support of others by which to transcend it? Frankly I do not see an option to the death of society that must come from the starvation of the religious mind and heart.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE] This could be a very depressing conclusion if it were founded on even the slightest bit of reason and fact. Countries, states, cities, towns, groups, tribes and families still exist and will continue to do so as long as they meet the needs of their members. There is a richness available in interactions that cannot be obtained by the hermit living in a cave. The religious mind that was founded and maintained by superstitions and fears is being assaulted by the growth of real knowledge. The human spirit that once depended on the illusion that it was being fed by supernatural powers is discovering its own power and mystery. We are learning; it just takes time. |
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| 5 years ago :: Jan 02, 2008 - 2:31PM #6 | |
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"The human spirit that once depended on the illusion that it was being fed by supernatural powers is discovering its own power and mystery. We are learning; it just takes time."
Indeed, progress over time is undeniable when viewed over centuries. It is appallingly blind to allege that we are morally no better than the Romans. Our attitude toward slavery and crimes against humanity are just 2 examples that come quickly to mind.
This is OZ? I want back to KS.
What was it? Click your heels together 3 times and say - what?? |
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| 5 years ago :: Dec 09, 2007 - 5:38PM #7 | |
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Mike the natural relationship between man on earth and higher consciousness must gradually deteriorate into imagination. We either adopt imaginary Gods or lose the inner feeling of the relationship and disbelieve. The result is a gradual reliance on materialism to try and fill the needs of the heart which feels the loss of its natural connection to the higher good. 'Higher consciousness' has never been demonstrated as an objective phenomenon. It's not even clear what the expression means nor how its advocates say it occurs nor what test will tell you whether you've achieved it or not. The notion that belief in supernatural beings is essential for a moral life is baseless. It's the same tired nonsense that seeks to portray atheists as amoral sociopaths. I'm tired of it. The most materialistic swine I know are conservative Christians, and they are legion. |
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