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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 2:34PM #21
vansdad
Posts: 55

Apr 17, 2012 -- 12:18AM, Erey wrote:


I don't claim to be an expert on seals or Newfoundland.  But my understanding is that they do tend to actually EAT the seals in Newfoundland. 


In my ethics it is acceptable to kill animals you eat.  Even animals that are excrutiatingly cute and adorable like seals.  In my ethics you can choose to eat any animal where the numbers are strong and are not endangered. 


So I don't see the difference between eating a seal or a cow or a pig.  In fact, I think it is more humane to hunt food than eat livestock. 


Granted for me eating a seal would be rather exotic, I doubt I would do it. 





I think the manner in which they are killed is what is also in question. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 3:19PM #22
rabello
Posts: 19,288

By those ethics, one would have to agree, then, that it is acceptable for carnivorous animals to kill humans because they eat them.  And what does that lead us to:  the law of the jungle.  I would rather be killed and eaten by a bear than by a snake, myself.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 4:16PM #23
Erey
Posts: 17,313

Yes carnivores do try to eat people from time to time.  And people according to the natural order of things protect themselves as best they can. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:35PM #24
solfeggio
Posts: 8,514

The 'natural order' of things is that Homo sapiens sapiens evolved as a type of frugivorous primate whose basic diet was similar to that of the chimpanzee, our closest relative, with whom we share 96% of our DNA. 


The chimp diet is made up mainly of fruit, leaves, seeds, resin, and even bark.  Chimps are primarily herbivorous, but they will also eat honey, birds, insects and even small mammals.


The 'natural order of things' has nothing to do with factory farms, seal slaughter, or any of the other diabolical ways in which humans decide the fates of our fellow animals.


Clubbing baby seals to death - or confining pigs in tiny enclosures for the few months they get to live before they are killed; hanging chickens upsidedown on a conveyor belt in order to slice off their heads; taking little calves away from their mothers and putting them into dark closet-like enclosures so their meat will be white - has nothing to do with the 'natural order of things' either.


Whether or not somebody eats the smashed bodies of the baby seals, or whether the clubbing provides income for somebody, or whether the skins of the babies are sold is beside the point.


Because the point is that there are plenty of other ways to make a living that do not entail killing innocent creatures simply because humans desire it.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:41PM #25
teilhard
Posts: 48,222

We're RELATED to the OTHER Great Apes, by Descent with Modifcation from Common Ancestry ...


In general, Apes are Opportunistic Feeders, IOW, "Omnivores" ...


I agree, however, that "Chimps" DON'T eat Canadian Baby Seals ... So what ... ???


Apr 17, 2012 -- 6:35PM, solfeggio wrote:


The 'natural order' of things is that Homo sapiens sapiens evolved as a type of frugivorous primate whose basic diet was similar to that of the chimpanzee, our closest relative, with whom we share 96% of our DNA. 


The chimp diet is made up mainly of fruit, leaves, seeds, resin, and even bark.  Chimps are primarily herbivorous, but they will also eat honey, birds, insects and even small mammals.


The 'natural order of things' has nothing to do with factory farms, seal slaughter, or any of the other diabolical ways in which humans decide the fates of our fellow animals.


Clubbing baby seals to death - or confining pigs in tiny enclosures for the few months they get to live before they are killed; hanging chickens upsidedown on a conveyor belt in order to slice off their heads; taking little calves away from their mothers and putting them into dark closet-like enclosures so their meat will be white - has nothing to do with the 'natural order of things' either.


Whether or not somebody eats the smashed bodies of the baby seals, or whether the clubbing provides income for somebody, or whether the skins of the babies are sold is beside the point.


Because the point is that there are plenty of other ways to make a living that do not entail killing innocent creatures simply because humans desire it.


 





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:46PM #26
solfeggio
Posts: 8,514

Chimps are primarily frugivores, as are humans.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 7:06PM #27
teilhard
Posts: 48,222

Human Beings are Omnivores and The Great Apes are Opportunistic Feeders who SOMETIMES hunt other Animals and  EAT  THEIR  MEAT ...


Apr 17, 2012 -- 6:46PM, solfeggio wrote:


Chimps are primarily frugivores, as are humans.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 9:59PM #28
Erey
Posts: 17,313

i have seen chimps, I have watched chimps.  That 4% difference in DNA is pretty freaking significant.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think we should have the same lifestyle as a chimp because we share 94% of the DNA. 


Chimps also are very violent moreso than human societies.  Chimps have harems, that is their standard.  Chimps regularly rape, that is acceptable for them.


Thanks but no thanks I will cling to my 4% difference.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 10:05PM #29
teilhard
Posts: 48,222

And ... Jane Goodall observed Chimps sometimes killing and eating Monkeys (RAW ... !!!) in The Wild ... Raw Monkey Flesh, anyone ... ???


Apr 17, 2012 -- 9:59PM, Erey wrote:


i have seen chimps, I have watched chimps.  That 4% difference in DNA is pretty freaking significant.  It is absolutely ridiculous to think we should have the same lifestyle as a chimp because we share 94% of the DNA. 


Chimps also are very violent moreso than human societies.  Chimps have harems, that is their standard.  Chimps regularly rape, that is acceptable for them.


Thanks but no thanks I will cling to my 4% difference.





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 11:01PM #30
solfeggio
Posts: 8,514

It is amazing how people will constantly misunderstand what is being said.


The fact that humans and chimps have so many characteristics in common relates to the fact that not only do we share DNA, but also that we have the same basic anatomy.  Is that so freaking hard to get?  Chimps didn't evolve to eat big slabs of cooked meat every day, but rather to live on a basic vegetable diet with the occasional bit of meat in the form of INSECTS or MICE or whatever they can find.


And the fact of their eating monkeys has nothing whatsoever to do with humans killing seals!!!


As ariel has pointed out ad infinitum, just because chimps or other animals find something, kill it and eat it, that has nothing to do with what humans do.


As ariel has also pointed out ad infinitum, if you want to make this case that humans are some sort of master race, then you have to also understand that humans would have risen above the find-something-kill-it-and-eat-it mindset.


Further, if humans are not the master race, then we're the same as chimps and other animals and there's nothing spiritual or special about us. 


Make up your minds what it will be.


Meanwhile, at least admit that smashing in the heads of baby seals is not just horrible, but evil.  And the people who are trying so hard to get it stopped are saints.

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