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Switch to Forum Live View NH Bill Requires Doctors To Give Women False Information
2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:16PM #171
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,763

Christian Girl. Some years ago. Black women in this country were forcibly sterilised (Against their will). That is a medical procedure. I guess going by your thinking that was not assault. Right?

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:18PM #172
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Girlchristian wrote:

I've already said that I don't agree with the law and wouldn't support it, neither will it hold up against a constitutional challenge.


Your other posts tell us something different.


That doesn't mean though that I'm going to agree when someone is lying and calling a procedure rape and claiming that someone is going to shove something up a woman's vagina without her consent just to make some point.


It is a valid point; this is not a medical procedure, but a punishment and that puts it within the definition of rape.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 03:01AM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:21PM #173
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:29PM, Girlchristian wrote:

They are not shoving anything inside her vagina against her will.


They most certainly are.

What they are saying, which I disagree with, is that the woman can either consent to the procedure or not get the abortion...


Coercion; the use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:24PM #174
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:12PM, mainecaptain wrote:

It is beyond me how women can not see what this is. So blind


That seems to be a continuing theme of those on the Right; going against their own best interests.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:28PM #175
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,763

Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:24PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:12PM, mainecaptain wrote:

It is beyond me how women can not see what this is. So blind


That seems to be a continuing theme of those on the Right; going against their own best interests.




You're right. It is bizarre. In an attempt to control others, They go against their own best interest.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:53PM #176
REteach
Posts: 14,188

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:29PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:18PM, mainecaptain wrote:


CG what do you call forcing a device inside a women's vagina against her will? Something she would never allow or asked for, in this situation. It is rape and sexual assault. There is no other definition.


Try and forget for one moment why they are mandating this and really think. You claim to have been a victim. Would it have been different if it had been with a device? THINK. Would it have been different if done by a doctor, but still against your will? THINK!




They are not shoving anything inside her vagina against her will. What they are saying, which I disagree with, is that the woman can either consent to the procedure or not get the abortion (something, BTW, that doctors and PP says to women). If she consents then she is allowing it even if it's just to get what she wants. When a doctor straps a woman down and shoves a wand up her vagina without her consent then you could call it rape, but that's not what is happening and you know it. Again, you're engaging in hyperbole because you're outraged that some legislators would mandate this.



IF the ultrasound is REQUIRED for the abortion procedure to be safe and effective, that is one thing. It is PART of the MEDICAL PROCEDURE. IF the vaginal probe is REQUIRED by legislators, NOT CARE PROVIDERS to make the woman second guess her decision, that is rape. As soon as legislators are mandating invasive procedures that are not medically necessary, that is rape.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:55PM #177
REteach
Posts: 14,188

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:24PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Rape? The definition of rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse.


So if someone sticks a dildo in your vagina against your will, that is not rape simply because it wasn't a flesh and blood penis?

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 6:35PM #178
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,763

Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:55PM, REteach wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:24PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Rape? The definition of rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse.


So if someone sticks a dildo in your vagina against your will, that is not rape simply because it wasn't a flesh and blood penis?




I was trying to convey this. I obviously was not getting through. I fear she will say no, its not

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 6:46PM #179
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:55PM, REteach wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:24PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Rape? The definition of rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse.


So if someone sticks a dildo in your vagina against your will, that is not rape simply because it wasn't a flesh and blood penis?




Who the hell  is talking about pushing anything against her will?


Someone who sticks a medical device in the  vagina of someone who is asking for an abortion is not forcing the woman to have sexual intercourse. Is it that  hard to understand the difference?


Is like viewing  a doctor who performs an operation with knives as attempting to murder them. Murderers cut people, so the doctor must be a murderer, according to this twisted logic.(or lack of it)  Geeezzzus!!  Talking about irrational  fixation.




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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 7:01PM #180
mountain_man
Posts: 38,742

Mar 20, 2012 -- 6:46PM, arielg wrote:

Who the hell  is talking about pushing anything against her will?


The states wanting to pass, or have passed, this ALEC sponsored anti-abortion law.


Someone who sticks a medical device in the  vagina of someone who is asking for an abortion is not forcing the woman to have sexual intercourse. Is it that  hard to understand the difference?


There is no difference. The woman is being coerced, forced, to be sexually violated, and punished, for wanting an abortion. That counts as rape.


Is like viewing  a doctor who performs an operation.....


No, it is not. The state mandates no other medical procedure.


And I thought all your Regressives were for smaller government? Shouldn't this small government stay out of peoples personal lives?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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