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Switch to Forum Live View NH Bill Requires Doctors To Give Women False Information
6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:03PM #161
Girlchristian
Posts: 13,685

Mar 20, 2012 -- 2:44PM, mainecaptain wrote:


I am far from pro abortion, again bearing false witness there huh CG?


I didn't call you a pro-abortioner. I'm also not a pro-birther, but that's how MM refers to those that are pro-life.


That does not make your chase look good.



I am however anti rape and anti sexual assault , and this law and ones like it are rape and sexual assault by proxy.


No it's not. A medical procedure is not rape. You're engaging in the exact same hyperbole that Rush does when he calls women that want to use BC "sluts."





"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:13PM #162
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Mar 20, 2012 -- 2:16PM, Girlchristian wrote:

If you weren't comparing it to rape and demeaning actual rape victims we'd agree.


No, we would not. Forcing something into a woman's vagina against her will, or through religiously based coercion, is rape. As long as you and other pro-birthers call abortions 'murder' or 'killing' then we get to call this sexual assault 'rape'.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 02:59AM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:16PM #163
mountain_man
Posts: 44,029

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:03PM, Girlchristian wrote:

No it's not. A medical procedure is not rape.


In this case it is not a medical procedure but a punishment. Lots of rapists want to punish their victim, or punish women in general. Rape is a crime of power, not sex. The religious extremists in this care are raping women to punish them. You are completely ignoring several other aspect of this rape law; the woman is forced to listen to the doctor describe the fetus and look at the picture of the fetus. THAT is not part of any medical procedure, but only for punishment.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:18PM #164
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

CG what do you call forcing a device inside a women's vagina against her will? Something she would never allow or asked for, in this situation. It is rape and sexual assault. There is no other definition.


Try and forget for one moment why they are mandating this and really think. You claim to have been a victim. Would it have been different if it had been with a device? THINK. Would it have been different if done by a doctor, but still against your will? THINK!

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:29PM #165
Girlchristian
Posts: 13,685

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:18PM, mainecaptain wrote:


CG what do you call forcing a device inside a women's vagina against her will? Something she would never allow or asked for, in this situation. It is rape and sexual assault. There is no other definition.


Try and forget for one moment why they are mandating this and really think. You claim to have been a victim. Would it have been different if it had been with a device? THINK. Would it have been different if done by a doctor, but still against your will? THINK!




They are not shoving anything inside her vagina against her will. What they are saying, which I disagree with, is that the woman can either consent to the procedure or not get the abortion (something, BTW, that doctors and PP says to women). If she consents then she is allowing it even if it's just to get what she wants. When a doctor straps a woman down and shoves a wand up her vagina without her consent then you could call it rape, but that's not what is happening and you know it. Again, you're engaging in hyperbole because you're outraged that some legislators would mandate this.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:30PM #166
Girlchristian
Posts: 13,685

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:16PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:03PM, Girlchristian wrote:

No it's not. A medical procedure is not rape.


In this case it is not a medical procedure but a punishment. Lots of rapists want to punish their victim, or punish women in general. Rape is a crime of power, not sex. The religious extremists in this care are raping women to punish them. You are completely ignoring several other aspect of this rape law; the woman is forced to listen to the doctor describe the fetus and look at the picture of the fetus. THAT is not part of any medical procedure, but only for punishment.





I've already said that I don't agree with the law and wouldn't support it, neither will it hold up against a constitutional challenge. That doesn't mean though that I'm going to agree when someone is lying and calling a procedure rape and claiming that someone is going to shove something up a woman's vagina without her consent just to make some point.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:35PM #167
Qwesam
Posts: 3,369

CG, let say you go to emergency room for appendix removal.  The Doctor insisted he has to check your “vagina”. If you refuse, no operation. It is an UNNECESSARY and UNWANTED additional medical procedure


 


What do you call it?  COERCE?  Unlawful? Rape?


And would you sue?

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:36PM #168
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

Also CG, think about this. Would you like your doctor to lie to you? About anything? Because if a doctor can be absolved for lying about one subject he can be absolved about lying about any subject. What about the doctor who does not believe in blood trasfusions, or what about a doctor who does not believe in cancer treatement of any kind.


Would it be acceptable for your doctor to lie to you about other things. Or only lie to other people about things you don't like? THINK!

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 3:43PM #169
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:35PM, Qwesam wrote:


CG, let say you go to emergency room for appendix removal.  The Doctor insisted he has to check your “vagina”. If you refuse, no operation. It is an UNNECESSARY and UNWANTED additional medical procedure


 


What do you call it?  COERCE?  Unlawful? Rape?


And would you sue?




I am beginning to realise you can not get through to some people. They are not interested. They do not care about justice or decent treatment for other people. Only themselves. Rape, screw people over,  lie to. As long as it is happening for their own agenda and to other people it doesn't matter.


And it never occurs to them that it will, (and it will) back fire on themselves one day.


If a doctor is allowed to lie about one subject. He will be able to lie about others. And people will suffer and die.


If you can force people to have unnecessary medical procedures for one situation, then unnecessary procedures can and will be ordered for other medical procedures.


And this particular set of laws is being made in the name of Christianity, thus eliminating the separation of church and state and forcing the beginnings of a theocracy. In other words the Christian Taliban. It is the Christian taliban forcing proxy rape on women.


Medical procedure or NOT, if it is being forced against someones will it is RAPE.


A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 4:12PM #170
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:16PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:03PM, Girlchristian wrote:

No it's not. A medical procedure is not rape.


In this case it is not a medical procedure but a punishment. Lots of rapists want to punish their victim, or punish women in general. Rape is a crime of power, not sex. The religious extremists in this care are raping women to punish them. You are completely ignoring several other aspect of this rape law; the woman is forced to listen to the doctor describe the fetus and look at the picture of the fetus. THAT is not part of any medical procedure, but only for punishment.




It is beyond me how women can not see what this is. So blind

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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