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Switch to Forum Live View NH Bill Requires Doctors To Give Women False Information
2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:23PM #151
mountain_man
Posts: 38,743

Mar 20, 2012 -- 12:15PM, Girlchristian wrote:

...The definition of 'kill' is to cause death or deprive of life. ....


Anti-women pro-birthers purposely choose words like "kill" and "murder" to emotionalize the discussion. They need to frame the discussion that way in order to feel like they are superior and are better than those that actually care about women.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 02:53AM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:24PM #152
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,034

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:18PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 11:43AM, Girlchristian wrote:

DUO you are the one being disigenous. According to the law, the woman must have the ultrasound in order to get the abortion, but if she doesn't want the ultrasound then she can refuse to have it done, however that means she can't have the abortion.


That is a classic example of coercion. This is of the most reprehensible kind of coercion; religious.

Disagree with the law all you want as I do, but at least be honest about what it actually says and stop comparing it to rape--an act that women DO NOT consent to.


The law is an egregious example of religious coercion. Religious extremists are trying to force a woman to do something against her will. How can you not recognize that? Why are you defending it? It is rape; an unwanted sexual assault.




Rape? The definition of rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse. No, sorry, a woman consenting to an ultrasound to get what she wants (i.e., the abortion) is not rape and I refuse to minimize what rape victims actually go through (an act that they cannot consent to and is typically violent) by claiming that it is no matter what the reason is for the demand for the ultrasound. Discuss the ultrasound itself without all the hyperbole and BS and yes, we'd probably agree, but as long as you and others call it rape, I won't agree with that.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:29PM #153
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,034

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:23PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 12:15PM, Girlchristian wrote:

...The definition of 'kill' is to cause death or deprive of life. ....


Anti-women pro-birthers purposely choose words like "kill" and "murder" to emotionalize the discussion. They need to frame the discussion that way in order to feel like they are superior and are better than those that actually care about women.




Quite frankly, it's rare that a rational discussion about abortion ever happens because there are emotions involved on both sides. If it wasn't about killing then no pro-choicer would have to preface their support with "I don't believe it's right" or "I wouldn't do it myself, but..."


You want to know how I really feel about abortion? Go to Feminists for Life's website and you'll see where I stand (a group whose motto is "Women deserve better"). Don't expect me though to support killing another human simply because that's easier than changing a society that would sit by and let that happen rather than take the steps necessary to ensure it doesn't.


www.feministsforlife.org/


 

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 02:54AM
"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:33PM #154
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,771

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:18PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 11:43AM, Girlchristian wrote:

DUO you are the one being disigenous. According to the law, the woman must have the ultrasound in order to get the abortion, but if she doesn't want the ultrasound then she can refuse to have it done, however that means she can't have the abortion.


That is a classic example of coercion. This is of the most reprehensible kind of coercion; religious.

Disagree with the law all you want as I do, but at least be honest about what it actually says and stop comparing it to rape--an act that women DO NOT consent to.


The law is an egregious example of religious coercion. Religious extremists are trying to force a woman to do something against her will. How can you not recognize that? Why are you defending it? It is rape; an unwanted sexual assault.




Apparently sexual assault with objects and devices is perfectly fine as long as it is religiously mandated. (Christian) Religiously mandated rape by proxy.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:50PM #155
mountain_man
Posts: 38,743

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:33PM, mainecaptain wrote:

Apparently sexual assault with objects and devices is perfectly fine as long as it is religiously mandated. (Christian) Religiously mandated rape by proxy.


It's only the christian extremists pushing this filth. Many Christians find these laws as repulsive and reprehensible as the rest of us.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:53PM #156
mountain_man
Posts: 38,743

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:29PM, Girlchristian wrote:


You want to know how I really feel about abortion?



No. All I care about is a woman's right to control over her own body is protected. The law in question here is a step towards taking away that right.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 02:55AM
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 1:56PM #157
mountain_man
Posts: 38,743

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:24PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Rape? The definition of rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse.


If that were true then over half of all rape cases should be dropped since there is no vaginal penetration, no sexual intercourse.


No, sorry, a woman consenting to an ultrasound to get what she wants (i.e., the abortion) is not rape and I refuse to minimize what rape victims actually go through....


Sorry, that argument isn't going to work. In this case the woman is NOT consenting, she is being coerced.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 2:16PM #158
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,034

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:53PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:29PM, Girlchristian wrote:


You want to know how I really feel about abortion?


No. All I care about is a woman's right to control over her own body is protected. The law in question here is a step towards taking away that right.



If you weren't comparing it to rape and demeaning actual rape victims we'd agree.


 



 

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 02:58AM
"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 2:42PM #159
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,771

Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:50PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:33PM, mainecaptain wrote:

Apparently sexual assault with objects and devices is perfectly fine as long as it is religiously mandated. (Christian) Religiously mandated rape by proxy.


It's only the christian extremists pushing this filth. Many Christians find these laws as repulsive and reprehensible as the rest of us.




Yes I definitely agree.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2012 - 2:44PM #160
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,771

I am far from pro abortion, again bearing false witness there huh CG?


That does not make your chase look good.



I am however anti rape and anti sexual assault , and this law and ones like it are rape and sexual assault by proxy.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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