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Switch to Forum Live View NH Bill Requires Doctors To Give Women False Information
3 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:10AM #201
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020

Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Girlchristian wrote:


I've already said that I don't agree with the law and wouldn't support it



G"C", you've done nothing BUT support it.


Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Girlchristian wrote:

neither will it hold up against a constitutional challenge.



What an odd way to run a country - pass evidently UN-Constitutional laws, implement them and THEN try and get them overturned in the courts.


Mar 20, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Girlchristian wrote:

That doesn't mean though that I'm going to agree when someone is lying and calling a procedure rape and claiming that someone is going to shove something up a woman's vagina without her consent just to make some point.




It isn't a "lie" to call inserting an object in a woman's vagina against her will rape. Once again, the "consent" received was obtained by coersion, and you have blocked yourself into a corner because you cannot admit this.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:14AM #202
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020

Mar 20, 2012 -- 6:46PM, arielg wrote:

Who the hell  is talking about pushing anything against her will?



ALL thinking, rational, reasoning people are. Thanx 4 askin'.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:18AM #203
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020

Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 4:55PM, REteach wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 1:24PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Rape? The definition of rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse.


So if someone sticks a dildo in your vagina against your will, that is not rape simply because it wasn't a flesh and blood penis?




If you look up the legal definition of rape by state then it depends on the state; however, all of the defintions of legal rape require a lack of consent or an inability to consent (minors, etc.) neither of which apply to this medical procedure.


I agree that the requirement of the medical procedure is BS, but calling it rape is also BS.





Your own statement disproves your own 'theory'.


"all of the defintions of legal rape require a lack of consent"


That is precisely the situation here. Obtaining this "consent" by coersion/intimidation is NOT consent.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 03:09AM
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:21AM #204
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020

Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:59PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:48PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Girlchristian wrote:

If you look up the legal definition of rape by state...


And they all include forcing something, or trying to force something, into a woman's vagina against her wishes.




No, what they say is without consent (although some don't include objects and only specify a sex organ). Even the FBI's definition of rape specifies no consent or without consent. You're making something up to fit this medical procedure that a woman consents to before it's done into the definition of 'rape.'


“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.


www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases...





You keep proving OUR point, for which many thanks.


The consent in these instances, is obtained by coersion and religiously-based political intimidation, which means it is NOT freewill consent in the first place.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 03:10AM
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 11:24AM #205
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020

Mar 20, 2012 -- 10:09PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 10:01PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:48PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Girlchristian wrote:

If you look up the legal definition of rape by state...


And they all include forcing something, or trying to force something, into a woman's vagina against her wishes.




Typical right wing behaviour, to try and change the defintion of rape.



"forcing something, or trying to force something, into a woman's vagina against her wishes." Is rape and/or sexual assault. No playing around with words will change this fact.




So the FBI are 'right wing'? According to the FBI definition of rape this medical procedure does not qualify as rape.





Sorry, G"C", but the original FBI definition very clearly contained the words "without consent". The women in the cases we are discussing did not "consent" - they were COERCED into having an unwanted insertion of an object into their vagina.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 03:11AM
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2012 - 12:17PM #206
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786

Mar 21, 2012 -- 11:24AM, Do_unto_others wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 10:09PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 10:01PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:48PM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 20, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Girlchristian wrote:

If you look up the legal definition of rape by state...


And they all include forcing something, or trying to force something, into a woman's vagina against her wishes.




Typical right wing behaviour, to try and change the defintion of rape.



"forcing something, or trying to force something, into a woman's vagina against her wishes." Is rape and/or sexual assault. No playing around with words will change this fact.




So the FBI are 'right wing'? According to the FBI definition of rape this medical procedure does not qualify as rape.





Sorry, G"C", but the original FBI definition very clearly contained the words "without consent". The women in the cases we are discussing did not "consent" - they were COERCED into having an unwanted insertion of an object into their vagina.


 




The problem here is all the people defending this procedure and saying it is not rape. Actually support this form of rape. The only reason to defend it is if you support it.


And they support it because they don't think it will ever affect them in any way.  They (generic) think it can't happen to them, so they have no problem being complicit.


But supporting and defending this, they join with the rapist. Every-time this device is forced on a women through coercion, (against her free will). All those who support and defend it become part of the rape by proxy.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 31, 2012 - 03:12AM
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 10:20PM #207
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

This is rape by FBI, UN, and WHO definitions


 


The United Nations defines it as "sexual intercourse without valid consent,"[5][18] and the World Health Organization defined it in 2002 as "physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration – even if slight – of the vulva or anus, using a penis, other body parts or an object".[19]


FBI’s Uniform Crime Report (UCR) Summary Reporting System (SRS). “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” 


5a b "Rape at the National Level, number of police recorded offenses". United Nations


18^ Convictions by Type of Conviction, Sex, Country and Year. Database of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe


19^ Krug (2002). Rapport mondial sur la violence et la santé. Genève: Organisation mondiale de la santé. p. 149.ISBN 9241545615.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2012 - 12:36AM #208
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786

Mar 23, 2012 -- 10:20PM, Fodaoson wrote:


This is rape by FBI, UN, and WHO definitions


 


The United Nations defines it as "sexual intercourse without valid consent,"[5][18] and the World Health Organization defined it in 2002 as "physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration – even if slight – of the vulva or anus, using a penis, other body parts or an object".[19]


FBI’s Uniform Crime Report (UCR) Summary Reporting System (SRS). “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” 


5a b "Rape at the National Level, number of police recorded offenses". United Nations


18^ Convictions by Type of Conviction, Sex, Country and Year. Database of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe


19^ Krug (2002). Rapport mondial sur la violence et la santé. Genève: Organisation mondiale de la santé. p. 149.ISBN 9241545615.





Thank you

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 3:19AM #209
Merope
Posts: 10,203

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
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