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Switch to Forum Live View Whales Are People, Too
3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 12:33AM #11
rabello
Posts: 20,901

I think it's a splendid idea. It would give those countries that respect the international moratorium on whaling the authority they need to criminally charge those countries that get around the moratorium by lying about what they're doing , and that would be the end of that.  Same is true for those countries that slaughter dolphins in order to catch one trophy out of the many.  Once the mindset takes hold, we could then move on to baby seals.


(of course, this is never going to happen, which is why scientists talk about such things at convention seminars)

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 9:20AM #12
TemplarS
Posts: 6,714

While I agree with the general premise here-


The international community cannot even agree as to what to do about the human slaughter in Syria, which is a rogue state supported by another rogue state.


You really think they are going to do anything about such highly-regarded nations as Norway and Japan? 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 9:30AM #13
Erey
Posts: 18,594

Feb 24, 2012 -- 9:20AM, TemplarS wrote:


While I agree with the general premise here-


The international community cannot even agree as to what to do about the human slaughter in Syria, which is a rogue state supported by another rogue state.


You really think they are going to do anything about such highly-regarded nations as Norway and Japan? 




That is a really great point

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 12:46PM #14
rabello
Posts: 20,901

Feb 24, 2012 -- 9:20AM, TemplarS wrote:


While I agree with the general premise here-


The international community cannot even agree as to what to do about the human slaughter in Syria, which is a rogue state supported by another rogue state.


You really think they are going to do anything about such highly-regarded nations as Norway and Japan? 




No, I don't really think the world will do anything at all about such things.  I think this idea is an intellectual exercise in tossing around ideas that are based on idealism not realism.  That's why it takes volunteers from the ranks of the ordinary -- like the Sea Shepherd or Greenpeace or Ric O'Berry -- to try to make a stand against the killers.


The very notion that beings such as dolphins and whales have an inherent "right to life" (that phrase has certainly been ruined!!!) same as human beings will undoubtedly cause upset among some.   But it is a revolutionary thought that could change the world faster than any Shock and Awe or Operation Cast Lead campaign could hope to!


I agree that the world's double standard toward Syria, particularly as compared to Libya, is very sad.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 2:00PM #15
christine3
Posts: 6,978

Feb 23, 2012 -- 5:45PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Trying to grant "personhood" to animals is just going around giving off mental flatulence, and then insisting that we should smell roses.  





Oh come on.  My biggest impression of people who would say such, don't think animals deserve kindness and respect.  You don't understand pain?    

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 2:08PM #16
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Oh come on.  My biggest impression of people like you who don't think animals deserve kindness and respect, is that you don't understand pain.   


Hunters need to justify  the enjoyment of killing "those things".

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 2:32PM #17
solfeggio
Posts: 9,120

Yes, I do believe that it is true that, by and large, people hunt because they really do get some sort of a thrill out of seeing an animal die. 


This is something that has been discussed at length in other threads in other forums over the years here at Beliefnet, and, as one hunter actually admitted some years back in one of those threads, he felt great excitement out of seeing the light of life die in the animal's eyes.  I believe he was talking about killing a deer, but I have read accounts from people who have been on the scene when whales were killed by Japanese whalers who have said that they did actually see the pain in the eyes of the whale as the life drained out of it.


I agree with the other posters that whales and other cetaceans, as well as great apes, will never attain any sort of status as individuals deserving of being left alone to live out their lives as they choose.  This is because humans simply cannot make the imaginative leap from believing that they are the only living beings whose lives have value to accepting that other sentient individuals' lives have equal value.


It's sad, but this is the world in which we live.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 2:35PM #18
Erey
Posts: 18,594

That is the problem with people who have narrow minds and can't see past the bridge of their own nose.  Mouse has repeatedly advanced how he makes choices that he feels are the kindest for the animals that he eats - over and again.  I would much, much rather be one of Mouse's vennison sausages vs. something dying a slow painfull death because I was poisoned for a vegetarian's crop or heaven forbid a feedlot animal. 


It shows you have zero ability to respect another point of view because it is not your point of view. 


Now you don't have to agree with Mouse, you can certainly remain a dedicated vegetarian.  But to not be able to comprehend how his lifestyle is valid and based on thoughtfull compassion shows me a real short-comming in charecter. 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 2:46PM #19
solfeggio
Posts: 9,120

Erey -


Mouse and I are long-term friends who have discussed hunting over the years, so we don't need your input here on whether I'm narrow-minded or not.  He knows I've always been against hunting as a recreational exercise, and I know he claims he does it for the meat. 


As far as animals dying a slow, painful death, you don't know what you're talking about.  Many studies have shown that something like 50% of deer and other animals shot by hunters do in fact die a slow painful death over days from wounds that didn't kill them. 


Taling about venison sausages being a kindly way to go is such a lot of crap.


And yes, I am completely against people going out and killing something just for the sake of the pleasure it gives them.  I think it is horrible that anybody would actually take pleasure in seeing some creature die.


 


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 2:48PM #20
Erey
Posts: 18,594

Feb 24, 2012 -- 2:46PM, solfeggio wrote:


Erey -


Mouse and I are long-term friends who have discussed hunting over the years, so we don't need your input here on whether I'm narrow-minded or not.  He knows I've always been against hunting as a recreational exercise, and I know he claims he does it for the meat. 


But, since this has nothing to do with you, you won't be surprised if I tell you to butt out.


 


 




what in the hell makes you think I was referencing you? 

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