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Switch to Forum Live View Whales Are People, Too
1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 5:42PM #1
solfeggio
solfeggio
Posts: 7,699

Researchers attending the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science have advocated giving human
rights to that group of marine mammals known as cetaceans.

www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/arti...

news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/21/dolphin...

www.economist.com/node/21548150

As noted in the above Economist link, Thomas White of Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles observed that to be considered a person, a being need not be human.  A person, as he said, is a being with special characteristics who deserves special treatment as a result of those characteristics.  For this reason cetaceans count as persons and have moral rights.   
   
Marine mammals are self-aware, have anatomically complex brains, and even have culture.


www.livescience.com/1328-secret-language...

This proposal reminds us of Peter Singer's idea that human rights be extended to the great apes, which was supported by the Spanish Parliament.  The first European Union member to grant basic rights to animals was Germany in 2002, and New Zealand granted basic rights to five great ape species in 1999. 


www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/ju...
   
  
     
  
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 5:45PM #2
mytmouse57
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,316

Trying to grant "personhood" to animals is just going around giving off mental flatulence, and then insisting that we should smell roses.  
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 5:48PM #3
solfeggio
solfeggio
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Mouse -


Why, oh why, do you always feel compelled to trash any propositions that deviate even slightly from your long-held, rock-solid views of the universe and its inhabitants?  Why shouldn't cetaceans be granted personhood and be left alone in their environment?  Why shouldn't great apes be accorded the same respect?


Where's the harm?
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 6:10PM #4
Erey
Erey
Posts: 15,126

I don't know what to think.  What does personhood mean?  Already there are laws on what you can and can't do with whales.  I can't go out and shoot whales.  I realize the japanese can but that is them. I don't know what this personhood business buys the whales.  Voting rights?  The right to interspecies marriage?  What?  Now can I go marry a whale because they are a person?



When I think of moves like this my mind goes to my dogs who definately have personalities.  Would my dogs have personhood?  I guess they could but then they cant survive without me.  I make very critical decisions for my dogs that I can never make for a person.  They have both been neutered for example.  If i had a disabled child that could never live independantly I would have a hard time convincing the courts or the powers that be that my child should be neutered. 


So in this case my dogs are not people, I make critical decisions on their behalf and frankly I don't consider their feelings in the matter.  I am not willing to get their permission to have them neutered.  Also, I expect them to use the bathroom outside, something I would not do for a person. 

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 6:15PM #5
jane2
jane2
Posts: 13,710

Feb 23, 2012 -- 5:48PM, solfeggio wrote:


Mouse -


Why, oh why, do you always feel compelled to trash any propositions that deviate even slightly from your long-held, rock-solid views of the universe and its inhabitants?  Why shouldn't cetaceans be granted personhood and be left alone in their environment?  Why shouldn't great apes be accorded the same respect?


Where's the harm?




Perhaps because in the usual sense a person is considered human, even according to many dictionaries.


Choose a different word--not so hard.


In the US SCOTUS conferred personhood on political blocs that donate money to candidates : truly off the charts.


I am fond of whales and dolphins. I respect great apes, but they are not persons. I love my little malti-poo and his personality but even he is not a person, character that he is.


(I'm rarely on Mouse's presented POVs of late, either.)




 
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 9:00PM #6
mountain_man
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Posts: 34,176

Feb 23, 2012 -- 5:42PM, solfeggio wrote:

Researchers attending the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science have advocated giving human
rights to that group of marine mammals known as cetaceans.


I would not go so far to call them human, or claim they deserve all the same rights as humans do. I also believe they should not be hunted for food or sport and should be protected from harmful fishing practices.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 9:02PM #7
mountain_man
mountain_man
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Feb 23, 2012 -- 5:48PM, solfeggio wrote:

Why, oh why, do you always feel compelled to trash any propositions that deviate even slightly from your long-held, rock-solid views of the universe and its inhabitants? ....


Why do you always feel compelled to trash anyone not agreeing with you?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 9:04PM #8
Roodog
Roodog
Posts: 9,743

Whales are endangered animals and they ought not be hunted. I will leave it at that.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 9:36PM #9
arielg
arielg
Posts: 8,206

Personhood implies  rights and responsibilities. You can give certain rights to an animal, but it is not possible to demand responsibility.


 As far as I am concerned, the most elightened and moral thing to do with an animal is to leave them alone. That is all the rights they need.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 9:56PM #10
solfeggio
solfeggio
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ariel -


I completely agree.
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