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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 11:14AM #321
Erey
Posts: 19,149

Oh my mother has deer now that frequently graze on her lawn.  I personally have not seen the deer but  I have seen the droppings.  I believe there is a herd in her neighboorhood of say 10 deer. 



This is the house I grew up in and we never had deer before.  It was a distant suburban community when I was growing up and now it is really just an extention of urban sprawl.  I do worry that the deer will be hit by a car, it is a fairly busy area. 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 11:22AM #322
christine3
Posts: 7,642

Mar 2, 2012 -- 10:57AM, Erey wrote:


By that last scentance what I am refering to is that there is alot of death in raising crops.  Alot of animals are killed to ensure a good crop.  Animals are often directly killed in places like Africa where animals like baboons, elephants, etc. will raid a farmers crops.  Other animals here in the US are killed when they are poisoned to protect the crop from being eaten.  Plenty of smaller animals are killed in this way.  Then there is the harvesting which has a tendancy to take out a few animals with the machines used.


A animal that is out not relying on a human crop.  Say a deer eating wild grasses and shrubs or a grass-fed cattle.  There were no animals killed in providing those crops.  The destruction on the plant life and the various creatures that live in the plant life is very minimal.    Then when you kill the grass-fed cattle or the deer or what have you - it is only that one animal you are killing.  And you are killing that animal while they are living an authentic life.  They were not bound up and overly restricted just one day they were taken out by a predator. 



So you have the death of that one deer vs. the death of say for instance a few dozen mice, several dozen insects and probably a couple of armadillos or something. 




Okay, I see what you meant and thanks.  On the other hand, I can only see killing wild animals when there is no other food available.  But that's me because I am a vegetarian.  


Mighty Mouse brings up another point, the need to supply a family with meat that it wouldn't have.  Food scarcity happened during the last Depression and people came to the mountains in search of food.  Now the economy is so bad that people hunt more to feed the family.  That's a problem, there is no easy answer, and the U.S. is more and more running into a blind canyon.  The future will be a bumpy ride.  

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 12:17PM #323
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Mar 2, 2012 -- 10:08AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 8:53AM, arielg wrote:


Mar  1, 2012 --  6:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


As I become a hunter education instruction, the first question posed to my students will be -- what is the first and most important thing you need to take into the field with you?


The answer: A respect for life.


You rationalizing is getting weirder and weirder. Something  like "if you are going to shoot your mom, make sure you have clean bullets". The means is the important thing, not the action.


Form over substance.




I seems weird to you, because you frame everything in human projection. Plus, an evident deep dis-connect from nature, with its cycle of life and death. 




What "human projection" are you talking about?  I frame evrything in terms of respect for life, which includes the right to live.


 The only disconnection here is between  expressing  love and care for animals  and shooting them.  And covering   up the contradiction with mental gymnastics to rationalize the incongruity   away.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 12:46PM #324
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:17PM, arielg wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 10:08AM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 8:53AM, arielg wrote:


Mar  1, 2012 --  6:53PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


As I become a hunter education instruction, the first question posed to my students will be -- what is the first and most important thing you need to take into the field with you?


The answer: A respect for life.


You rationalizing is getting weirder and weirder. Something  like "if you are going to shoot your mom, make sure you have clean bullets". The means is the important thing, not the action.


Form over substance.




I seems weird to you, because you frame everything in human projection. Plus, an evident deep dis-connect from nature, with its cycle of life and death. 




What "human projection" are you talking about?  I frame evrything in terms of respect for life, which includes the right to live.


 The only disconnection here is between  expressing  love and care for animals  and shooting them.  And covering   up the contradiction with mental gymnastics to rationalize the incongruity   away.





I respect life. I respect animals. But I don't "love" them, at least not the way I love people. I don't raise them up to a human level, or, diminish people down to an animal level. 


If you want to "love" animals, and regard them as your equals, and equally important as human beings -- have at it. 


There's nothing to "rationalize." Killing an animal to eat it is not the same thing as killing another human being. No matter how badly you wish it to be. 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 12:59PM #325
christine3
Posts: 7,642

Love and respect can be as personal as the individual idea or as broad as a world view. Take Buddhists, in the general sense.  There is even a huge gamut there, from Buddhists that raise their livestock, to those in monasteries that don't kill anything.


What I understand your love and respect to be, is to not cause anymore harm than is necessary.  Instead of being an amateur that botches the job, a keen and exact huntsman.  


As for myself, I am actually trying to lower the amount of killing in this world, as seen, for instance, from an off-world perspective.  There is too much of it, and that's the difference between your world view and mine. 


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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:17PM #326
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:59PM, christine3 wrote:


Love and respect can be as personal as the individual idea or as broad as a world view. Take Buddhists, in the general sense.  There is even a huge gamut there, from Buddhists that raise their livestock, to those in monasteries that don't kill anything.


What I understand your love and respect to be, is to not cause anymore harm than is necessary.  Instead of being an amateur that botches the job, a keen and exact huntsman.  


As for myself, I am actually trying to lower the amount of killing in this world, as seen, for instance, from an off-world perspective.  There is too much of it, and that's the difference between your world view and mine. 





I might not agree with you, but I respect the sincerity and integrity of your views, as well as your willingness to live by them.


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3 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2012 - 1:31AM #327
Merope
Posts: 10,597

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
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