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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:25PM #21
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:22PM, rabello wrote:


Jan 2, 2012 -- 3:24AM, Yavanna wrote:


She doesn't miss a beat. Goes right back to how many animals die a year.





You mean she rose to the occasion and answered your bait?


It really was that obvious, offensive as it was to those of us who have experienced a tragedy that you mocked, or to those of us who have lost pets to careless drivers.




I almost lost my life and a leg to a careless driver. You can stuff your self-righteous indignation. You care more about the animals that die from it than people. That's my point. Thanks for proving it.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:30PM #22
rabello
Posts: 20,358

Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, Yavanna wrote:


You care more about the animals that die from it than people.




Not in the least. 


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, Yavanna wrote:


That's my point.




Your "point" is based on an ASSumption you make.  You know what they say about "ASSumptions."   


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, Yavanna wrote:


Thanks for proving it.




You provoed nothing, except that, for whatever reason, you rely on ad hom argumentation way too much to try to "prove" your points.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:41PM #23
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:30PM, rabello wrote:


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, Yavanna wrote:


You care more about the animals that die from it than people.




Not in the least. 


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, Yavanna wrote:


That's my point.




Your "point" is based on an ASSumption you make.  You know what they say about "ASSumptions."   


Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:25PM, Yavanna wrote:


Thanks for proving it.




You provoed nothing, except that, for whatever reason, you rely on ad hom argumentation way too much to try to "prove" your points.




Why is it you always accuse me of ad-homs right after making one... ? ;)

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:44PM #24
Erey
Posts: 18,369

I have accidentaly hit a squirrel before and a bird while driving my vehicle.  I would never choose to hit an animal but honestly they did run right in front of me and I did not have time to swerve or stop.  I probably have squashed a few toads on the road and not known it. 


Once while driving in the back roads of a rural area there was a water mocassin (poisinous snake) sunning itself in the middle of the quiet road.  The older teenage girl I was with made a deliberate point to run over the snake. 


I am pretty sure most of us would never choose to hit anything animate or inanimate while driving, be it a dog, toad old lady, child, light pole or fire hydrant.  Accidents happen, sometimes tragic accidents.  I think we all need to instill in our youth a healthy respect for the responsibility and dangers of driving. 


Hitting a cow is a good way to suffer a serious injury and possibly lose your life, ditto for deer.  I don't like to drive in certain rural areas at night if there are alot of deer in the area because they can spontaneously leap out in front of you. 




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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:46PM #25
Erey
Posts: 18,369

Dec 31, 2011 -- 6:53PM, Ken wrote:


I think all highway memorials are in abominable taste.




In  conversation a friend  said "I take comfort in the fact that when I die, from whatever reason nobody in my family will ever put up a road side cross in my name."

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 2:57PM #26
karbie
Posts: 3,329

We have signs and flashers a few towns away from us that warn drivers that they are entering a high risk intersection or several bad intersections. Great time to distract a driver--at a high accident area by the signs and lights.


I couldn't understand as a child how there could be starving children in India when there were very large cows walking any place they wanted to go. (I didn't think they would like the food on my plate if we'd boxed up the spinach and sent it to them.)


Half of my family are vegetarians. The food at family gatherings always contained enough food so that they could have a good meal as well.


Our fellow primates eat each other. So the taboos against cannibalism are ones we've imposed upon ourselves to keep us from adding neighbors to our menu. Humans are also animals and we routinely ignore that when pushing rights for all  animals. PETA is a prime example of pushing rights for every animal above their own species. 


Unfortunately, it seems that the plants can recognize a person who came in and killed another plant...so what is there we can eat?


Remember it wasn't that long ago when Europeans thought nothing of claiming lands in the New World that were already occupied and in use. The Native Americans didn't mind so much when the first people appeared--but they sure steered them toward the nice green malarial swamps to settle in.


There have been more attacks recently by bears who are actually eating people or just entering their homes. Mountain lions still consider us as prey. You don't see PETA get upset over that unless one of the attackers is killed. Alligators, lions, tigers, cheetahs, wolves and sharks consider us just another meal.


I'm just tired of them going off the deep end.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 4:17PM #27
rabello
Posts: 20,358

I don't think anyone who has posted here has blessed PETA for wanting to erect highway memorials for roadkill.   And just about everyone is smart enough to know better than to even try to dispassionately consider their pov for intellectual stimulation/curiosity on THIS board.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 7:08PM #28
Erey
Posts: 18,369

Jan 2, 2012 -- 2:11AM, CharikIeia wrote:


Jan 1, 2012 -- 8:19PM, solfeggio wrote:


Why shouldn't cows (and any other living beings) have the same rights as humans? 



Funny thought, solfeggio.


You mean like, the right to vote, or the right to bear arms?




haha the right to bear arms



www.cartoonstock.com/directory/b/bear_ar...


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3 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2012 - 7:58PM #29
solfeggio
Posts: 8,897

I like the joke about bear arms.  Thanks for posting.


The idea of memorials for cows (or any animals or birds) killed on the highways is preposterous.  It serves no useful purpose at all.  And, as I've said before, I'd much prefer that PETA channels its considerable energies into more constuctive ways of raising people's consciousness about the various cruelties inflicted upon our fellow beings that share this planet with us.


People tend to think of cows as nothing more than milk, meat, and leather.  This ties in with the (unfortunately) widely-held contention that since humans have 'dominion' over the animals, it must follow, then, that humans have the right to slaughter them at will. 


And, as we have seen in this thread, most people lso seem to think nothing of making crude, insensitive, even dismissive comments regarding the deaths of these animals on the roads or elsewhere.


However, even if it were true that humans have 'dominion' over our fellow animals (which of course it isn't), it isn't logical.  After all, we have dominion over our children and pets, too, don't we?  And we don't mistreat or slaughter them.


How many people even ever wonder about the intelligence of cows?  Apparently, they have personalities, are quite intelligent, and communicate with each other:


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


www.gan.ca/animals/cows.en.html


liveexport-indefensible.com/facts/cattle...


Cows in India are treated differently than cows in other countries.  In India, the farmers think of their cows as members of the family and are treated accordingly.  In fact, Hindus revere the cow.  In the Vedic scriptures, cows are treated with the same respect as someone's mother.


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2012 - 1:12AM #30
karbie
Posts: 3,329

The cows are treated as if they might be the reincarnation of a relative by the Hindu. I can accept using their milk and unfertilized eggs from poultry as a return for the food, shelter, and care they receive. Even as a carnivore, I won't eat baby anything.


Years ago a PETA group in the UK broke into a laboratory and let out all the animals being used for tests. As soon as they were free, these animals ate endangered animals and vegetation.


I am absolutely against animal testing for things like the cosmetic and shampoo, conditioner, and skin care products. they don't react the same way we do and it is just useless cruelty. I only buy products in these industries if no animals were used for testing.


That whole "dominion over animals" bit came from the Bible. Adam was told he got to name everything, and man is still naming fossil remains of dinosaurs. The real problem is that so many people consider anyone who disagrees with them to be something less than a human being.


For animals to get ethical treatment, we have to treat other people ethically. At the moment, I don't see a lot of that going around. If we can get past demonizing anyone who belongs to the wrong political party and the wrong religion, then we can stop looking at everything in the world as belonging solely to one species.


PETA is so strident and over-the-top that they alienate me. Use that power to run more no-kill shelters for animals.


When my son had pet geckos, I went out in a white-out because we were out of crickets and house spiders. We had bought them, so that meant we were responsible for providing for them. When he came home from a school carnival with a goldfish, it  lived for over 9 years and was bigger than my hand. My avatar is a rescue cat; the kids have a rescue cat as well. I agree that animals have distinct personalities and souls.


How can I understand that and still eat them? Because I get hungry and I want to survive. We eat far less meat than we used to, but we are still omnivores.

"You are letting your opinion be colored by facts again."
'When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
these are both from my father.
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