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Switch to Forum Live View the Abortion issue in Mississippi
3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 5:46PM #1
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,287

I've always considered myself pro-life but this really bothers me,

"An antiabortion movement that is gaining momentum nationwide is hoping for its first electoral victory Tuesday, when Mississippi voters will decide whether to designate a fertilized egg as a person and potentially label its destruction an act of murder.


If approved, the nation’s first “personhood” amendment could criminalize abortion and limit in-vitro fertilization and some forms of birth control. It also would give a jolt of energy to a national movement that views mainstream antiabortion activists as timid and complacent.


“They’ve just taken an incremental approach,” said Les Riley, the founder of Personhood Mississippi and father of 10 who initiated the state’s effort. “We’re just going to the heart of the matter, which is: Is this a person or not? God says it is, and science has confirmed it.”

 www.washingtonpost.com/politics/antiabor...


I once crawled into a doctors office in pain and woke up several hours later having had an abortion, without it I would be dead. 

Wise men still seek him.
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 6:08PM #2
Kwinters
Posts: 22,137

This legislation would, as far as I could see, make all hormonal contraception illegal, it would prevent doctors from doing emergency abortions for eptopic pregnancies, it would prevent ERs for providing the morning after pill to women who had been raped or ruffied, it would prevent it from being dispensed to women who had their other contraception fail.


In other words, the state would have forced pregnancy.


It defies belief in a modern society, and one that claims to be a land of personal liberty.


I would also wonder what would happen to women who drank alcohol while pregnant - are they providing alcohol to a minor?  Or cigarettes? If they don't wear a seat belt are they to be tried for endangering the life of a child?


It is as if people want to take women back to the Dark Ages.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 6:26PM #3
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

The idea is to make abortion an issue in the 2012 election.


Life does begin at conception; so, are they planning on issuing a certificate to pregnant mothers to identify the unborn as a person?  Will you have to name the unborn "person" once you know you're pg )?  How is that suppose to work!  I wonder if they've thought this through.  


In Mississippi's mind, their law would override the federal law.  What laws will they (and other States like them) try to override next? 


 

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 6:27PM #4
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Nov 5, 2011 -- 5:46PM, withwonderingawe wrote:

I've always considered myself pro-life but this really bothers me,


"An antiabortion movement that is gaining momentum nationwide is hoping for its first electoral victory Tuesday, when Mississippi voters will decide whether to designate a fertilized egg as a person and potentially label its destruction an act of murder.


This does seem to be the inevitable result of the idea that an embryo (which, as WebMD explains on its "Pregnancy and Conception" page, includes a fertilized egg) has personhood and individual human rights. As long as people keep asserting that an embryo has personhood and individual human rights, we probably will be faced with potential laws such as this that consider the destruction of a fertilized egg to be the murder of a human being. "The sanctity of human life from conception to natural death," as the Catholic Church maintains. It seems Catholics aren't the only ones who adhere to this idea of human life. 

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 6:56PM #5
Armwar
Posts: 12,019

sometimes frankly ignorant ignoramuses have to be allowed to run amuck, then someone has to mop up.


 


This is ignorance to a new level...

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 7:51PM #6
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Nov 5, 2011 -- 6:56PM, Armwar wrote:


sometimes frankly ignorant ignoramuses have to be allowed to run amuck, then someone has to mop up.


 


This is ignorance to a new level...



Well, it is an ignorance that Christians are particularly fond of. I wonder what Jews, Muslims, and Baha'i, the other three monotheistic, Abrahamic faiths, tend to think. Do they agree with their Christian brethren concerning an embryo's personhood? If they do, this ignorance would seem to be a symptom of Abrahamic monotheism in general rather than just an ignorance of Christian monotheism. 

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 8:35PM #7
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Nov 5, 2011 -- 6:27PM, costrel wrote:


Nov 5, 2011 -- 5:46PM, withwonderingawe wrote:

I've always considered myself pro-life but this really bothers me,


"An antiabortion movement that is gaining momentum nationwide is hoping for its first electoral victory Tuesday, when Mississippi voters will decide whether to designate a fertilized egg as a person and potentially label its destruction an act of murder.


This does seem to be the inevitable result of the idea that an embryo (which, as WebMD explains on its "Pregnancy and Conception" page, includes a fertilized egg) has personhood and individual human rights. As long as people keep asserting that an embryo has personhood and individual human rights, we probably will be faced with potential laws such as this that consider the destruction of a fertilized egg to be the murder of a human being. "The sanctity of human life from conception to natural death," as the Catholic Church maintains. It seems Catholics aren't the only ones who adhere to this idea of human life. 




Yes, it is the natural progression of the idea of personhood.   It is very difficult for people to understand that an embryo is a human being, but not a citizen, with the rights and obligations of citicenzhip. 


 There should be no laws regarding any aspect of pregnancy until there is birth and an individual with a name and social security number occupying  space.


There may be moral laws, according to the  principles and beliefs of the individual, but not legal ones.

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3 years ago  ::  Nov 05, 2011 - 9:57PM #8
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

Nov 5, 2011 -- 8:35PM, arielg wrote:


Nov 5, 2011 -- 6:27PM, costrel wrote:


Nov 5, 2011 -- 5:46PM, withwonderingawe wrote:

I've always considered myself pro-life but this really bothers me,


"An antiabortion movement that is gaining momentum nationwide is hoping for its first electoral victory Tuesday, when Mississippi voters will decide whether to designate a fertilized egg as a person and potentially label its destruction an act of murder.


This does seem to be the inevitable result of the idea that an embryo (which, as WebMD explains on its "Pregnancy and Conception" page, includes a fertilized egg) has personhood and individual human rights. As long as people keep asserting that an embryo has personhood and individual human rights, we probably will be faced with potential laws such as this that consider the destruction of a fertilized egg to be the murder of a human being. "The sanctity of human life from conception to natural death," as the Catholic Church maintains. It seems Catholics aren't the only ones who adhere to this idea of human life. 




Yes, it is the natural progression of the idea of personhood.   It is very difficult for people to understand that an embryo is a human being, but not a citizen, with the rights and obligations of citicenzhip. 


 There should be no laws regarding any aspect of pregnancy until there is birth and an individual with a name and social security number occupying  space.


There may be moral laws, according to the  principles and beliefs of the individual, but not legal ones.




It makes sense that a person only exist when an actual person had been born.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 06, 2011 - 9:46AM #9
Kwinters
Posts: 22,137

Nov 5, 2011 -- 8:35PM, arielg wrote:


Nov 5, 2011 -- 6:27PM, costrel wrote:


Nov 5, 2011 -- 5:46PM, withwonderingawe wrote:

I've always considered myself pro-life but this really bothers me,


"An antiabortion movement that is gaining momentum nationwide is hoping for its first electoral victory Tuesday, when Mississippi voters will decide whether to designate a fertilized egg as a person and potentially label its destruction an act of murder.


This does seem to be the inevitable result of the idea that an embryo (which, as WebMD explains on its "Pregnancy and Conception" page, includes a fertilized egg) has personhood and individual human rights. As long as people keep asserting that an embryo has personhood and individual human rights, we probably will be faced with potential laws such as this that consider the destruction of a fertilized egg to be the murder of a human being. "The sanctity of human life from conception to natural death," as the Catholic Church maintains. It seems Catholics aren't the only ones who adhere to this idea of human life. 




Yes, it is the natural progression of the idea of personhood.   It is very difficult for people to understand that an embryo is a human being, but not a citizen, with the rights and obligations of citicenzhip. 


 There should be no laws regarding any aspect of pregnancy until there is birth and an individual with a name and social security number occupying  space.


There may be moral laws, according to the  principles and beliefs of the individual, but not legal ones.





Wow, I have to say that I entirely agree with this.  That's nice to say for a change!


Although I would say that viability, rather than birth, is a reasonable legal line.  I think that abortion should be entirely unrestricted in the first trimester, more regulated in the second and only be an option for medical reasons in the third.  Breathing on one's own is the criteria for viability in my view.


Is abortion at 5 weeks ending a life? Yes.  Should it be illegal?  No.  We have many instances where ending a life is considered to be non-criminal.  This is one of them.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 07, 2011 - 12:38AM #10
Lonesentinel
Posts: 2,423

Nov 5, 2011 -- 7:51PM, costrel wrote:


Nov 5, 2011 -- 6:56PM, Armwar wrote:


sometimes frankly ignorant ignoramuses have to be allowed to run amuck, then someone has to mop up.


 


This is ignorance to a new level...



Well, it is an ignorance that Christians are particularly fond of. I wonder what Jews, Muslims, and Baha'i, the other three monotheistic, Abrahamic faiths, tend to think. Do they agree with their Christian brethren concerning an embryo's personhood? If they do, this ignorance would seem to be a symptom of Abrahamic monotheism in general rather than just an ignorance of Christian monotheism. 





You need to be more precise with your accusations.  Try this..."Well, it is an ignorance that  Fundgelicans are particularly fond of."  It rings much more true then...

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